kh

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by Erns so where does having oyster shells in the system fit into this?

Oyster shells will slowly boost KH (think timed release) vs. BS's instant impact.

My point is that if your water has sufficient KH and you do sufficient water changes, you don't need to add anything. Enough KH is enough KH and the only benefit to having 10X KH is that you can go longer between water changes. But why would you want to do that when other parameters would suffer?

Think of it as running your car on a 1/4 tank of gasoline: You can run it all year long just fine on a 1/4 tank, as long as you gas up frequently.

Furthermore, there are advantages to keeping your koi in water with low pH, KH & GH readings -- so that's a valid reason not to boost your natural KH without due cause.

[B.Scott]

Oyster shell is in fact a very poor source of bicarbonate and is only of any use with water that is fairly close to becoming acidic. As pH levels drops the amount of bicarbonate dissolved from oyster shell will slowly increase. The up side of this method is it enables the pond owner to limit the amount of KH to a minimum without increasing the pH or TDS significantly. Many people go to great lengths to maintain a low TDS and pH and this allows them to create a self regulating buffer without negating all the work they might have gone to with RO units and the like in an attempt to lower pH but not have the system go into a pH crash.

The down side is that as the buffering capacity is minimal it means keeping a much closer watch on the system as its capacity to fluctuate is much greater. Any sudden large influx of acidity can still cause the pH to go into free fall before the oyster shell can pick up the slack and kill the ponds inhabitants in very short order. The other down side is the need to keep a clean flow of water over the oyster shell as they make a very efficient crap-trap and give them a regular cleaning to avoid a build up of mulm and detritus.

For those serious fanatics among us it is a great system but if you like to pay a little less attention to you water values and look at the fish then it might be worth considering a bit more intrusive method of buffering the KH.

B.Scott

[KoiCop]

Your points about oyster shells are well taken, Scotty, especially for those advanced ponders who absolutely must boost their KH.

Most of us, however, just need to perform regular water changes.

When in doubt, test and chart your pH and KH levels -- then you'll be able to see whether you have a problem that needs to be addressed, or not. How? If you've charted your pH & KH readings, and they've remained constant, then you've sufficient KH to maintain that pH based upon current stocking and feeding levels.

Should the latter two variables change, the former two might, too, so keep a sharp eye out.

[diamond*girl]

Is there any advise for those of us who do not have source water with sufficient KH?
I must use cistern collected water (rain) and indeed those of us who live in areas with abundant rainfall (Pacific Northwest) have to deal with accelerated lowering of KH a on a daily basis during parts of the year.

I've been assuming there is no better recourse than dosing with BS, correct?

Thanks.

[Beniguy]

While in Japan this year (for my first time) I spent alot of time looking at the filtration systems of the 12 breeders we visitied. Oyster shells were present in many of the systems. The water there is soft.
Going back to Burt B. remarks from some time back he recommended using clay as an additive.
I've used it weekly for some time and aside from adding minerals which are stripped through the water processing plants, it clarifys the water remarkably. Gh and KH 120 all the time. Very important for the "q" system also.

Ed

[B.Scott]

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniguy While in Japan this year (for my first time) I spent alot of time looking at the filtration systems of the 12 breeders we visitied. Oyster shells were present in many of the systems. The water there is soft. Going back to Burt B. remarks from some time back he recommended using clay as an additive. I've used it weekly for some time and aside from adding minerals which are stripped through the water processing plants, it clarifys the water remarkably. Gh and KH 120 all the time. Very important for the "q" system also. Ed

Ed while clay is a great source of trace minerals, in general it will do nothing to increase your KH

With regards to the use of sodium bicarbonate, otherwise known as baking soda, For those fortunate enough to have soft water (which I believe is a plus point when raising koi) it can be a headache trying to keep a balanced level of KH fit for a beginner with a level high enough to correct mistakes they might inadvertently come across while learning the ways of koi keeping. The main problem is that the constant addition will make the KH level tend to bounce about after each application and in koi keeping, the key word is stability. The more stable the conditions, the better the fish tend to grow.

I have often thought about the swimming pool my parents had when i lived at home. The added chlorine via a small tube attached to a venturi at one end and a tank filled with chlorine tablets at the other. The chlorine was constantly sucked out of the reservoir by the under pressure in the venturi and applied chlorine at a constant trickle.

I wonder if the same system wouldn't work with baking soda. There are several ways to approach this and regulate the amount of NaHCO3 being introduced to the pond. My thoughts go out toward a small, dedicated pump of maybe 15-20 watts with a venturi drawing from a stock container of Sodium Bicarb. The amount added can be influenced by varying the concentration of the stock mixture, the running time of the pump or a combination of the two.

Getting the right mixture would take a bit of experimentation but I am sure it would be a winner once a balance was found.

B.Scott

[diamond*girl]

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott With regards to the use of sodium bicarbonate, otherwise known as baking soda, For those fortunate enough to have soft water (which I believe is a plus point when raising koi) it can be a headache trying to keep a balanced level of KH fit for a beginner with a level high enough to correct mistakes they might inadvertently come across while learning the ways of koi keeping. The main problem is that the constant addition will make the KH level tend to bounce about after each application and in koi keeping, the key word is stability. The more stable the conditions, the better the fish tend to grow.

Are there negative effects on the koi if the KH level fluctuates? I thought that buffering the PH to keep it from swinging was the more important consideration.

[B.Scott]

Good point D-G,
In keeping koi healthy the name of the game is first off good water and then STABILITY. Any factor that fluctuates wildly will have some sort of adverse effect however mild it may be.

When water parameters fluctuate the koi must adapt to the new situation. If the fluctuation is to a degree that exceeds the fishes ability to rapidly compensate the fish will be forced to endure a less than stable metabolic situation and it's immune system and growth will be compromised. If the fish is eventually able to compensate it will recover having expended some extra energy. If the situation continues with the fish being unable to adapt it will get sick until it either recovers or eventually dies.

Small variations that fall within the the fishes range of adaptation are not a problem and this is what we should strive for when keeping koi. But any time the fish are subjected to a large swing in pH, KH, GH, TDS of temperature, it comes at a cost to the fish. If you need to suddenly dump masses of Sodium Bicarbonate in the water then it had better be because the fish are under threat from something much more serious and deadly like pH swings. If not that it is important to do it all gradually and a little at a time.

In an emergency things are different and one must choose the lesser of two evils. But on a day-to-day basis it is stability and gradual transitions that best suit our fish.

B.Scott

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by diamond*girl Is there any advise for those of us who do not have source water with sufficient KH? I must use cistern collected water (rain) and indeed those of us who live in areas with abundant rainfall (Pacific Northwest) have to deal with accelerated lowering of KH a on a daily basis during parts of the year. I've been assuming there is no better recourse than dosing with BS, correct? Thanks.

dg . . . .

How bad are your basic water parameters (pH, KH, GH)?

[PapaBear]

I personally think the inclusion of products like Oyster Shell, Coral, or Lithaqua in the Bio is more for the bacterial colony than the ph buffering in the pond. The Carbonic acid production is primarily taking place in the bio, so the fact that the bacteria readily colonize on the Carbonate source causes an immediate ph buffering to the micro-environment within the colony itself. In my opinion, the health of the bioreactor is far more stable, even under extreme weather conditions that might otherwise disrupt kh/ph levels pond-wide. Water changes will take care of the rest of the pond in most cases.