best of em in the Omosako grow out.

[luke frisbee]

I love it... Now if I can get 3 of the first 14 pics I'll have three of his top drawer Shiro Utsuris.

yep there are only 14 of the better ones to choose from

[winwin88]

Hello Super Kindai,
I'm new to the forum, so please be patient with me.
As far as the picking order:
First "skin quality", second "conformation", and last "pattern". Where would the sex of the fish fit in the order of picking? Is it more preferable to pick female shiro over male? If female were to be a fish of choice i.e. for shiro, then how would one go about picking a female fish by just looking at the pictures? Thank You.
Vinh

Thank you for the url on your #80. there is not many opportunity to compare like that at the same time.
and also the following comment had created a great impression to me because you know the right way to start the selections.
so I'm picking for skin quality/conformation and putting pattern dead last.

( Left : male parent, Right : Tatuma = female parent)[/quote]

[Mtn ponder]

I've been looking at #59. It has not made my top 30, but I wonder if anyone else thinks that it might come out with a lighting pattern. I also think it is definitely male.

[winwin88]

Marrie,
Thanks for the INFO. I'm now more confused then ever!!!!! These shiros have evolved (dramatic change) so much from tosai to 3 or 4 years of age that one would not think that they are the same fish. So the idea is to pick the most ugliest fish out of the bunch and hope that it will turn out decent.
Merry Christmas,
vinh

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal One more tool to help with choices--the *process of growth* page from the Omosako website: ‹ÑŒï‚Ì–Ê”——{Œï�ê Click on the thumbnails for the process from tosai to 4 years old, click again for bigger pics. Good luck all!

[The Pond Digger]

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee Mike I agree with everything you said .................BUT. i figure that they threw in some stonkin good Shiros in the mix... as well as alot of crap. the reason for the good uns...well the "Winners" gotta show what can be done with these koi and he can't put just one ringer in there...what if it dies in transport, or worse yet, I get it? So there are gonna be some koi in this group that will be worth alot more... I figure at least ten that the Breeder knows has potential. And remember the Breeder is Judging this event; he put in some koi he is unsure of and some he wants to "display." imagine a well-known breeder Judging his Culls in an Open Forum...now that would be very entertaining. And there's ALWAYS 5-10% good ones that don't show as good ones till a year later... So which ones are they? I know.

Great point Luke!

The Pond Digger

[koiczar]

Thanks for the links Marie. The one from Sentual Park Koi Center is very interesting, however, I think it may cause more confusion than understanding. The photos taken are at intervals up to 6 months (Dec.'06- June'07). Trying to judge how our fish will look in a year or two's time is more in keeping with the grow-out pics from Omosako. Our contest will be of 14 months duration (Jan'08-Mar'09) so much more time to see changes.

It is fun to look at Musashi's offspring as opposed to Panda's. Being sisters, there aren't a lot of variances. Some of both have heavy or light patterns. Some sumi seems to stay and some completely disappears. The one's Shawn posted as well,are more relevant to our contest for comparison purposes as they are a year apart. Wow, who's your customer and how big is his pond?! If they were in fact the same size as what we're picking from in his early pics, he has gotten OUTSTANDING growth and nice development. They still have a ways to go, but nothing but upwards IMHO! Kudos to him/her.

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by winwin88 Hello Super Kindai, I'm new to the forum, so please be patient with me. As far as the picking order: First "skin quality", second "conformation", and last "pattern". Where would the sex of the fish fit in the order of picking? Is it more preferable to pick female shiro over male? If female were to be a fish of choice i.e. for shiro, then how would one go about picking a female fish by just looking at the pictures? Thank You. Vinh Thank you for the url on your #80. there is not many opportunity to compare like that at the same time. and also the following comment had created a great impression to me because you know the right way to start the selections. so I'm picking for skin quality/conformation and putting pattern dead last. ( Left : male parent, Right : Tatuma = female parent)

[/quote]

Hello winwin88. I am also a kind of new to the forum, so no problem for me at all.

As far as the picking order:
Actually, First "conformation" Second "skin quality" at the same time "sumi quality" then favorite pattern, in my case.
*conformation include head & face shape plus proportional body size. *silky skin.
*blue/navy-black sumi and kiwa is important. * white tail joint is preferably.

In my opinion, body conformation is not a really big matter, If we want to make a small to medium size koi, maybe up to 20"or so. Male uturi, nice pattern with good skin, could be enjoyable for a koi show, if someone want to do within a few years.

On the other hand, not only body conformation but also head & face shape/size become critical issues, If we want to make a larger size koi, over 24" to Jumbo size.

In general, Yes, we must select a female koi especially for Shiro Uturi because of its different shades of white between male and female after the mature age of 3-4 years old.
( although I am looking for some male shiro uturi intensionally at this time...haha)

It is a difficult to find it out on a 6"- 8"small tosai. there are signs but from the pics..... usually, bigger/longer size of body, head, pectorial fins, muscle type and already pretty ones are Males.
Good luck.

[koilvr]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal No? I've been researching both Panda and Musashi offspring in order to make some sort of educated choice (though no matter what, I'll end up going with my gut in the end). Wanna see some Panda and Musashi babies in a growout from last year, complete with update pics from the competition? ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . I knew you would.... The Sentul Park Koi Centre put on an Omosako Shiro Utsuri Growout Contest last year, so we have the benefit of seeing a year's worth of growth on both Panda and Musashi offspring, with the added benefit of seeing which ones are Musashi's and which are Panda's. *nodnodnod* I've changed my first choice to something completely different than what I'd anticipated after studying their progression pics. I'm ready to take that chance on the fish that first caught my attention but then was discounted for a more "forseeable" Shiro. Here's the url and tell me if these results are anything like what you would have anticipated out of fish that are similar to your top choices here: spkcadmin There is a link at the top of the page to take you to the original webpage where the choices were made from. Alpha-numerical designations are made for each fish--if there is an M in the number, it's a Musashi fish. If a P, then Panda... Have fun! Marie

Hi Marie, the Sentul Park Omosako Shiro grow out event is indeed full of surprises OGP03 is my one and only pick, unfortunately I'm a few minutes late in placing the order and someone else get it. I then decide not to participate myself but manage to select OGM02 and OGP09 for my friends.

Here's another Omosako Shiro grow out event that I participate prior to the Sentul ones. Mine is number 19 and reach 55cm last September, sumi is slowly darkening in exact spaces when it is still 13.5cm in size. Unfortunately it died in an accident. Oyagoi is Musashi. The development pics include information about size. Hope you find it useful.

Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): Regional: Singapore: Grow out event - Series 3 (Omosako Musashi shiro utsuri): Page 9;

[PapaBear]

Another curve ball to toss in the mix is the fact that unless I'm mistaken the SPKC fish were all grown together in the same water and food. At least thats how most of the growouts among that group have been handled in the past.
The guys over there love growout competitions that are a pure "selection skill" challenge, and I've followed several of their previous growouts over the past few years with great interest. Since the Koi are all held/fed together by the dealer the husbandry and growing conditions are equal, and only the eye of each contestant is put to the test. Viewing their fish gives us a true idea of what the fish are capable of in "laboratory conditions" with year round feeding in a tropical climate.

We have the added challenge of putting our husbandry skills, general water conditions, feeding regime, climates, etc... to the test. Their results are wildly varied, so just imagine what ours will be like

[PapaBear]

Hey Koilvr.

Glad you chimed in. (Larz1 here). See if you can get GCSpyder and a few of the guys with an eye for shiro's to toss in their two cents worth on these. I'd love to get some perspective from some who've been down this road before.