best of em in the Omosako grow out.

[kntry]

I have a question about #76 on that growout. If you look at the size of the head and the way the gills "fit" over the body, it appears that the head is too large for the body. Is that an indication of a large adult or a misshapen head?

I picked out one that's in my top 10 that has a head like that because I think it indicates large size.

[winwin88]

Hello winwin88. I am also a kind of new to the forum, so no problem for me at all.

As far as the picking order:
Actually, First "conformation" Second "skin quality" at the same time "sumi quality" then favorite pattern, in my case.
*conformation include head & face shape plus proportional body size. *silky skin.
*blue/navy-black sumi and kiwa is important. * white tail joint is preferably.

In my opinion, body conformation is not a really big matter, If we want to make a small to medium size koi, maybe up to 20"or so. Male uturi, nice pattern with good skin, could be enjoyable for a koi show, if someone want to do within a few years.

On the other hand, not only body conformation but also head & face shape/size become critical issues, If we want to make a larger size koi, over 24" to Jumbo size.

In general, Yes, we must select a female koi especially for Shiro Uturi because of its different shades of white between male and female after the mature age of 3-4 years old.
( although I am looking for some male shiro uturi intensionally at this time...haha)

It is a difficult to find it out on a 6"- 8"small tosai. there are signs but from the pics..... usually, bigger/longer size of body, head, pectorial fins, muscle type and already pretty ones are Males.
Good luck. [/quote]

Hi Super Kindai,
Thank You so much for the information you've provided. I'll use it as a guide to select S.U. I'm a big fan of big fish, therefore I will be looking out for female shiro, because I want to enjoy the fish for long time. This is definitely a great education for me thus far.
Happy Holidays,
Vinh

[koilvr]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Hey Koilvr. Glad you chimed in. (Larz1 here). See if you can get GCSpyder and a few of the guys with an eye for shiro's to toss in their two cents worth on these. I'd love to get some perspective from some who've been down this road before.

Hey Larz

Indeed, a sharing from GCSpyder and the others should be great. Anyway, the following links might be useful for the Mystic/Bito shiro grow out participants. Hope Mr. Hwong and Welson don't mind.

This link contains recap by Mr. Hwong from seminar on Omosako Shiro by Takayoshi himself, this seminar was held during SPKC Omosako Shiro grow-out judging session.
Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Koi Appreciation: My New Shiro Utsuri

And below I quote lessons learned from Welson (wtansk) taken from this link
Omosako Shiro Utsuri Grow Out Event 2006 - Page 9 - SPKC Koi Forum

"I had learned the following during the talk:
1. If two koi, one with white head and the other with yellow head, he will pick the one with yellow head to be a male. (hehe.. I always believe this)
2. Shiro with yellow head that turns to be a female will have more stable sumi.
3. Instead of putting your money on 1 koi, split the money to invest on on koi with different characteristic to see how the koi will grow in your water.
4. At young age, most important is the balance body and not the overall body confirmation.
5. For Omosako shiro, if sumi dot appear at several location, it will have sumi but need to be patient."

As for me, I learn a few hard lessons from both Omosako shiro grow-out events that I followed closely . My two cents:
- a white head won't give you a guarantee, it can turn yellow later. the opposite is true
- a narrow looking head can still give you a nice head shape later, provided the fish looks underfed when you choose it
- a dirty head will guarantee a head sumi, but you can not tell what it will look like
- pattern will follow underlying sumi (here I mean sunken looking sumi, scallop looking sumi, net like sumi, NOT the peppery sumi -- other call it baby sumi --)
- I don't have to worry about shiro and sumi quality if it is an Omosako shiro , but I need to worry about unwanted hi later if the fish is an offspring of Musashi I'm not trying to say that all will develop unwanted hi, but the fact is some do. And even when they do, in some case the hi comes and goes. So it'll go back to your luck.

[Flounder]

Excellent info koilvr, much aprreciated by us.

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by kntry I have a question about #76 on that growout. If you look at the size of the head and the way the gills "fit" over the body, it appears that the head is too large for the body. Is that an indication of a large adult or a misshapen head? I picked out one that's in my top 10 that has a head like that because I think it indicates large size.

According to my eyes, the size & shape of the head and the side lines of the face are Okay/good, it's not too large but just a normal size for me, although we can not check a curve line of the head, from the mouth to the shoulder, by the picture......

[luke frisbee]

Koilover,
nice I appreciate the thread
and Papa bear...thanks for the additional info..I would have never thought those koi were raised together...as a matter of fact when I looked at them I wondered what the Hobbyist did to whiten their koi that the others didn't know about

[luke frisbee]

and did you notice #60 won... MY KOI

[The Pond Digger]

KoiLover,

Thanks for the link with the great info. I mean really. For the first time, I can say I am looking at koi in an entirely new light! I am excited about the future.

BTW, this is a MYSTIC/Bito Grow out not Majestic/Bito.

Respectfully,

The Pond Digger

[koilvr]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Pond Digger BTW, this is a MYSTIC/Bito Grow out not Majestic/Bito.

Ooops, I don't know what's in my head when I wrote it. My apologee to Bill
Thanks for the correction pond digger. I hv edited accordingly.
Cheers.

[luke frisbee]

o anyone gonna pick this one?