Compare Hoshikin Kohaku to Yamamatsu(Matsunosuke) Kohaku?

[Shigure&HiUtsuri]

I recently bought a Female Kohaku from breeder Yamamatsu(Matsunosuke). She is 16.9 inches, was born in 2006, and has what I think is an extremely thick but well proportioned body for her young age. Admittedly, this Kohaku is not extremely high-quality by any means as pattern goes because I have not been out of college long enough to afford one yet.

Anyway, from the little I know Yamamatsu seems to breed the biggest kohaku of any Japanese breeder overall.(is this true?) Secondly, it seems that at the moment Hoshikin is considered the best Kohaku breeder. (Why?)

How would one compare the two seeing as how both breeders each have great aspects to their kohaku.

On a side note, if a kohaku reaches jumbo size how much of an impact does it have on its value as opposed to one that is say only 28"?
I will try to attach a photo if it will work, Thanks.

[luke frisbee]

you two,
excellent first post...
you provided knowledge and posed a worthwhile topic for discussion....on something i know Nothing about....

[aquitori]

Anyway, from the little I know Yamamatsu seems to breed the biggest kohaku of any Japanese breeder overall.(is this true?) Secondly, it seems that at the moment Hoshikin is considered the best Kohaku breeder. (Why?)

Many breeders have very big Kohakus, but the breeder who has raised over 90cm Kohakus and have won All-Japan is Sakai Hiroshima.

Hoshikin considered to be the best Kohaku Breeder? Some say yes and some say no. It depends on who you ask, I for one think Sakai Hiroshima Kohakus are the best in the world.

[koiczar]

Also of note:

Yamamatsu is the name of the farm that was started by the father of Toshiyuke and Toshio Sakai.
Toshiyuke is the elder brother, who inherited the Yamamatsu farm. Toshio Sakai moved to Isawa to start his own farm and is actually the one who is famous for carrying on the lineage "Matsunosuke" line - which by the way was originally their sanke keito. Most breeders use offspring of this bloodline in their sanke pairings/breeding to this day. So, in actuality, and in modern day terms, when the name "Matsunosuke" is used properly, it refers to the Isawa Nishikigoi Center, owned by Toshio Sakai, in Isawa, Japan.

I know where you got this info for your post, but I don't feel it's anything more than marketing to get people to think they have a Matsunosuke koi. From what I have been told, they don't share fish anymore and the Yamamatsu line is inferior to the "newer" Matsunosuke breedings.

Mike

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar From what I have been told, they don't share fish anymore and the Yamamatsu line is inferior to the "newer" Matsunosuke breedings. Mike

Mike, they have never shared Koi nor have they ever done any breeding together. When Toshio Sakai first went to Isawa he borrowed some of his brothers mud ponds until he could be on his own.

[Shigure&HiUtsuri]

Thanks for the info. When a single koi is being judged or bought for that matter once it has developed some, say at least 3 years old does the breeder really hold that much weight in its value or do you only look at the kohaku's attributes and forget about the breeder?

[西湖上人]

I have found this article about Yamamatsu Koi farm on the official website (INPC):
International Nishikigoi Promotion Center/Yamamatsu Koi Farm

Any comments?

[Bob Winkler]

Quote: Originally Posted by Shigure&HiUtsuri Thanks for the info. When a single koi is being judged or bought for that matter once it has developed some, say at least 3 years old does the breeder really hold that much weight in its value or do you only look at the kohaku's attributes and forget about the breeder?

In a koi show, it is always the koi in front of you as it is at that moment, never the breeder that matters. When buying.....well, that depends on who is buying.....

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Shigure&HiUtsuri Thanks for the info. When a single koi is being judged or bought for that matter once it has developed some, say at least 3 years old does the breeder really hold that much weight in its value or do you only look at the kohaku's attributes and forget about the breeder?

Buy the Koi not the breeder.

[dechoong]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I for one think Sakai Hiroshima Kohakus are the best in the world.

I second that . For overall quality, I do find Sakai Hiroshima kohaku quite unmatched.