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Old 12-23-2007   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KDSD View Post
Will start another post as not to stray from the intended thread purpose Teach me to do this in word first
LOL, Mark. Been bit by dat bug, too.
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Old 12-23-2007   #112 (permalink)
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Hello....I'm still lurking in this thread.

I know I'm not as tall and mighty in the world of koi keeping and networking...

BUT I like the koi and I like nice people who like the koi .

Though you may consider me a "NEWBIE" I don't think I am....

I ADMIT I AM NOT 24/7 KOI KEEPER, but I have spent a considerable amout understanding the "ART OF KOI KEEPING".

SO, Lets' say you "well to do HIGH-ENDERS koi folks" talk to a realtive this holiday.... Maybe he/she is the "Black Sheep" of the family because he makes little money....BUT HE/SHE loves the koi....AND THEY ASK YOU WITH GREAT HOPES!........ I WANT A KOI POND, BUT ALL I HAVE IS FEW THOUSANDS TO WORK WITH....They tell you all they are concerned with is the BARE MINIUM TO KEEP KOI. OF COURSE you cringe, and get a sick feeling in your stomach (lol)....DO you tell them, SORRY your out of luck keep dreaming, or perhaps you can say YES THERE IS A WAY!!!!...OF COURSE IT WOULD NEVER BE AS EFFICIENT AS A "HIGH-ENDER" koi pond......BUT it works, and you have created an opportunity for koi enjoyment for the "less fortunate"....

I think it is possible.....

I agree with Mr. Luke......can you add a little to it? LET the permits take care of themself in another thread.

4 ft minimum depth
Bottom drain
Skimmer
Vortex
One additional mechanical filter
Bio filter
pump



What is the bare minium?

Although I would go with 5' in Michigan....
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Old 12-23-2007   #113 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
OK Mickey, I sat back in the early portion of this thread (and the one on the Shack) in hopes of seeing someone apply the system approach hilighted in KOI USA. Butttttttt, I guess I'll have to do it.

I work in 5000 gallon increments (approximate). Why? Because it becomes the lowest cost per gallon in the system approach that I use. As an example, 12; diameter pond, 6' deep is roughly 5000. That size and gallonage are two of the key components. I think all will agree that a diffuser dome, 4" gravity fed will keep a 12' diameter floor "clean." So there is one of the logical reasons for the 12' diameter. Now, as for the depth. Although you do not have a climate (Florida) which dictates substantial depths below a frost line, the incremental costs of going with a 6' depth verses a minimum of 3' becomes minimal in the totsal pond cost. The equipment is the same, 1 diffuser drain, 1 skimmer (I prefer gravity fed), 2 pumps and filtration systems on both...and UV if desired. Those are the major costs and whether 2500 gallons at 3' of depth or 5000 gallons at 6' of depth, the flow rates, pump sizing and filtration capacities could be equal.

Yes, there would be "some" savings at 3' of depth but with those savings come other factors such as water temperature stability. So, for maximizing the footprint at minimal additional costs, I would recommend the 6' depth.

Now, for your area, you really only need to go down about 2; with the top of the footer at 18" below grade (minimal acceptable depth for a footer). Thus the pond could then be built up 2.5 feet for the 3' of minimum depth utilizing reinforced concrete block for structural integrity. Excavate deeper for the desired 6' depth. Go on a "Luke" hunt for savings on these materials. For a round pond such as this, I would recommend 2, "sets" of T PRs (making them reversible). A water fall is not "needed" and thus could be "cut" from a minimal design. If you go with the 6' depth, I would suggest a midlevel pick-up stubbed out for future added filtration should you wish to go beyond the 10 mature koi that this design (at 6' depth) could easily accomidate.

You could utilize a liner and not even pour a concrete floor but could remove the liner later, pour the floor and then seal with your choice of CIM, Sani Tred, Polyurea or other sealant of your choice later. As for equipment? You choice of many filters out there or even DIY. Myself, for the 2500 gallon version I would go with a baby nexus and the 5000 version the larger nexus. For heavy stocking, a baby nexus or even larger nexus could be added to the gravity skimmer circuit. Again, many filters out there and DIY stuff, just make sure it will handle a 3000 - 4500 gph rate with minimal drop and can accomidate media that stays clean and has sufficient surface area for your desired stocking densities.

The shape doesn't have to be round either but TPR and drain placement are dependent on the shape choosen.

Here's a rough sketch I made for some friends down in Dallas a few years back to give you a rough idea.

Although you are in Florida, Your pond isn't being launched to the moon so I don't think you will need NASA's involvement?

Steve
That is about as perfect pond for a beginner as you can get even down to the Nexus . If not purchased right away the excavation could be made for .All this could be done by most people and would be affordable . If one has a pond put in often the cost of doing business dictates that a charge of $50 per man hr is charged and it is time consumming so costs are beyond most people .
Congratulations Steve you are the winner .
Regards
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Old 12-23-2007   #114 (permalink)
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Hello Seefdro . . .

You might be interested in squaring your thoughts against what Mickey posted this morning on this thread's KS incarnation:

Does anybody else or everybody else think this is about it?

Four foot deep, not three, not five. Liner regrettably.
About 3000 gallons. Maybe round. Maybe not. I like rectangles.
4" bottom drain with air. 250
Skimmer. 150
Settlement chamber, vortex OK? 600
Open bio, aerated mats or K1 fluid. 250-1,000
External pump Sequence 750 OK? 3600gph? 250
Pipe returns. ???
Microscope 250
Good net 250
Med kit ???
Good koi bowl

Notes for UV, heat, shade, depth adaptation for climate, stocking levels, water changes, TPRs, waterfalls, TTs, showers, additional means of mechanical seperation.

That leaves only......structure.

FYI, I'm still fighting for a DYI crap-trapper between the settlement/vortex and the bio -- but haven't gotten any support for that over there.

As for more depth, I'm with you -- I'd spec an extra 6" for each zone traveled enroute to the North Pole.
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Old 12-23-2007   #115 (permalink)
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My very favorite , and I mean VERY favorite 'on the cheap' koi pond story was from a lady that posted on the old KOIVET board in it's very beginnings. She was not a woman of means but she wanted koi, it was her God given right! So she found one of those large 8 foot satellite dishes from the old days abandoned by a neighbor and put it in front of her trailer. She filled it up with water and put in plants and koi. When it turned green or needed cleaning ( no filters, they were for rich people who had more money than sense) , her and her son would tip it over and spill water out on the ground. But it was heavy so they could not tip it to get all the water out. But when the green water was low they could see that the fish had sores on them.

Well, we all assumed this was why she had come onto koivet, to get advice about the ulcers. But no, it seemed there was always a big black snake in the water when her son and her tipped the 'koi pond' for it's weekly water change and she was wondering---- did anyone know how to get the black snake out of her koi pond without turning the whole pond over?
later ( after I stopped laughing and caught my breath) I wondered, was there really a big black snake in the pond or was she still getting reception from the 'Nature channel' on her satellite koi pond? JR
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Old 12-23-2007   #116 (permalink)
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Shucks...

Your right Cop......

That's a nice system there.....

My wife has my thoughts going in too many directions.....

Holidays and stress....Blah!

*-just want to kick back with a beer and some nice looking koi.....
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Old 12-23-2007   #117 (permalink)
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*-just want to kick back with a beer and some nice looking koi.....
Here's looking at you, Kid.
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Old 12-23-2007   #118 (permalink)
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ROFLMAO, JR.

Next you're gonna tell us she didn't have the microscope, either?
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Old 12-23-2007   #119 (permalink)
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Mark . . .

Very interesting -- thanks for sharing.

I'm hoping you can address the permit issue from a SoCal perspective?
Ok will try this again



P.I.T.A. is the first word that comes to mind concerning building codes and permits.

Ok it was asked here, I will answer here, but maybe grounds for a new thread on forum.


Ok here are a few PDF files to look at, one is for California H&S and the other is Davis Ca. Here will see a difference from one area or county of California to the next…….I feel for the Koi folks there in Davis Ca.

This is from California codes H&S:

CALIFORNIA CODES
HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 115920-115929
115920. This act shall be known and may be cited as the Swimming
Pool Safety Act.
115921. As used in this article the following terms have the
following meanings:
(a) "Swimming pool" or "pool" means any structure intended for
swimming or recreational bathing that contains water over 18 inches
deep. "Swimming pool" includes in-ground and above-ground structures
and includes, but is not limited to, hot tubs, spas, portable spas,
and nonportable wading pools.

This is the biggest problem is the fact they want classify ponds as swimming or recreational bathing structures, which we know there not! So after 18" in some parts of town and 24" in others its time to battle the building Depts



Now this is from Davis Ca section 420:

SWIMMING POOL is any structure intended to contain water over 18 inches (610 MM) deep. This includes in-ground,
aboveground and on-ground swimming pools; hot tubs; portable and non-portable spas; fixed in-place wading pools; and
other ornamental pools such as koi ponds.



Now what one county to next does also varies as well as to city to city, I say this because of below prime examples.

We had a club member that was going to do a "Dedicated Koi Pond" so he first went to his HOA to be approved. They had no problem with his landscape design, so he went to the city of Escondido. They said because you have gone through your HOA planning group and approved we don’t need anything more……have a nice day!

Solana Beach same thing if approved by your HOA planning group then were done. I asked them if there was anything else. They said only if you are going to pull power then you need a circuit card, existing circuit so have a nice day sir…Thanks for calling.


So you have San Diego/Orange/Riverside/LA/San Bernardino County’s and how many cities/towns within? So bottom line is to check your city/town building Dept. and or County if it so dictates.

The other thing most here use is the 18”-24” Max depth and/or less then5000 gals does not need to be permitted. Oh and liner is considered a temporary and does not need to be permitted either as long as it conforms to the above criteria. Unless here again certain HOA has approved your landscape plan then the gloves are off per say…………go figure!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pool_and_Spa_Regulations.pdf (102.3 KB, 14 views)
File Type: pdf Swimming%20Pool%20Safety%20Act.pdf (107.5 KB, 10 views)
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Old 12-23-2007   #120 (permalink)
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Thanks, Mark. I knew you could come through.
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