positively...a koi pond

[schildkoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by mitten We know the givens...koi pond on our side of the line, POS on the other. Volume and depth. circulation. bottom drain feeding water to filters by gravity. separation of solids from pond water before the filters frequent (daily) removal (flushing) of solids from system.. bio filters housing large surface area of appropriate media. So, I'm still just trying to find the lowest limit. Agreement can be made now, and among us, based on our rigorous insights. If the group agrees on 10,000g, I'm building and testing 10,000g. If the group requires Nexus, well I'll try and find a dented Nexus with low miles. If there is a must for this or a must for that, then it's in. Much breath, much typing, much flummery is spent on debates about "Is it or isn't it?" So, define it. I'm not trying to make people feel good by making soft noises and singing camp songs. And it is easy to notice that a couple people who always have a lot to say, have added nothing to our discussion. We ALL know that I am not an authority nor any kind of good example. But let me please push a little bit for input and ask again for a move toward agreement amongst us all. What is the smallest, cheapest, shallowest, least filtered pond that WILL NOT be a POS? What is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM koi pond? Is this answered in Koi Kichi? All my stuff is packed and stored in the barn for now and I can't look. Do I remember there is a 2,500g pond in there?

Mickey, why is 10,000 gallons a minimum? Why not 5000 or 2500 or 1000? Once again, for almost any minimum set, it can be designed around....at a cost typically.

I think a better question is,"what koi pond volume and design meets the koi's requirements at the most resonable price?" But, what do I know?

Steve

[The Pond Digger]

Quote: Originally Posted by KDSD Just a quick note here on the block that Steve showed: Those are not dry stack or inter locking block with pins There 88's full (8"x8"x16") cinder block. They have to be mortered(1800psi LA code mix) in place and should have #4 or #5 vertical rebar@ either 8" or 16" O.C. depending on height and soil. Also there to have horizontal #4 or #5 rebar@ every other course, these are tied wired to the vertical steel. Every other course should also have a course of bond beam 88's as well(thus the steel set down in) creating conrete bond beam area. After which all cells are to be filled with a conrete design cell blend. Don't forget to ram rod or viberate and pack crete in cells...............no pockets please. Lets don't forget the footing....more steel and concrete

There is my point to the typical DIYer. Most will be scared to death with that one paragraph. Alternate methods would be appreciated by the masses.

Thanks for your attention to detail Mark.

Respectfully,

The Pond Digger

[schildkoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by KDSD Just a quick note here on the block that Steve showed: Those are not dry stack or inter locking block with pins There 88's full (8"x8"x16") cinder block. They have to be mortered(1800psi LA code mix) in place and should have #4 or #5 vertical rebar@ either 8" or 16" O.C. depending on height and soil. Also there to have horizontal #4 or #5 rebar@ every other course, these are tied wired to the vertical steel. Every other course should also have a course of bond beam 88's as well(thus the steel set down in) creating conrete bond beam area. After which all cells are to be filled with a conrete design cell blend. Don't forget to ram rod or viberate and pack crete in cells...............no pockets please. Lets don't forget the footing....more steel and concrete

Agreed KDSD and that was my point.

Digger,
Let's see, which would scare them more, that paragraph or the knowledge that without such they risk this....oh, and this owner told me prior to building such that her clay was as "hard as rock," when we had a strucxtural conversation prior to her building:

[mitten]

Steve, I'm not telling the minimum. I'm asking the minimum. Thanks for the ongoing input. Let's hack it out. My opinion is that I could do 2500g or 3000g. I never had an easier pond than my 10,000g though. Representing that as a minimum would be misleading.

Can there be a way to agree on gallonage? Or can we just offer guidelines? Is 2,500 to 3,000 a good enough definition? Is 3,000 to 5,000 better as a definition of minimum for a new koi keeper?

[The Pond Digger]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Oh, back to blocks. BTW Digger, do NOT use reinforced concrete block construction in most areas of California....at least below grade. Steve

What is protocol for block work below grade in koi pond construction for most of Calif? Recommended Footings, etc? I have seen installations contrary to what you have suggested. I am not saying they are right or wrong, I have just ran into them in my travels. Over engineered? Moisture issues? EARTHQUAKES?

In lake construction doing long edges using block, it is NOT recommended to mortar in freeze zones. Granted the edge treatment on lake construction is usually shallow and miles different from Koi Pond edge treatments. I'm just looking to compare philosophies.

If it is not reinforced below grade then how would it be viewed by an inspector when they finally acknowledge koi pond construction as a field that needs specific codes?

With Humility,

The Pond Digger

[The Pond Digger]

Mitten,

Sorry if I am pulling this thread off track. I can appreciate you persistence on recommended gallons.

Respectfully,

The Pond Digger

[The Pond Digger]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Agreed KDSD and that was my point. Digger, Let's see, which would scare them more, that paragraph or the knowledge that without such they risk this....oh, and this owner told me prior to building such that her clay was as "hard as rock," when we had a strucxtural conversation prior to her building:

Steve,

Please elaborate on what is happening in this photo.

How tall is the vertical?

Was anything used as structure to support the vertical?

How long was the feature installed?

Was this under normal conditions or was there some other factor that lead to the failure? Heavy rain, neighbor's yard flooding, over watering the slope behind the feature?

I am not suggesting that we CUT CORNERS on structure. I am looking for alternative and possibly cost saving structural methods for the steep verticals. Say, like plywood as shown in post #33 of this thread. JK

Believe me I understand clay. It's called Redlands for a reason. Hard as concrete when dry and when it is wet you can loose your boots walking in it.

It must be Beer-Thirty by now! Looking forward to your reply.

Respectfully,

The Pond Digger

[Eugeneg]

I think a better question is,"what koi pond volume and design meets the koi's requirements at the most resonable price?" But, what do I know?

Steve
Before anything is done a test hole 5ft deep should be first dug ,based on that a decision can be made whether a low cost liner pond can be installed .
One has to do this a step at a time and that is the first step .
Regards
Eugene

[KDSD]

Ok here are what we use in SD county ....just match the wall height(H) and then how tall look across guide and it will tell what is required.......... Easy as abc's.

Ok back to the main topic

[KoiCop]

Mickey . . .

I'll throw a 3,000 gallon figure into the ring; if nothing else, it'll start the ball rolling and give folks something to take shots at.

Ready Set Go.