Coloration and pattern tendencies of Matsukawabake in relation to kumonryu?

[Shigure&HiUtsuri]

Are Matsukawabake the same as black and white kumonryu except that Matsu's have regular scales? More importantly do Matsu's colors and patterns change as often as kumonryu or are they relatively stable once they are about 2yrs. and up? Thanks for any answers

[luke frisbee]

from what I have personally seen
yes and yes

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by Shigure&HiUtsuri Are Matsukawabake the same as black and white kumonryu except that Matsu's have regular scales? More importantly do Matsu's colors and patterns change as often as kumonryu or are they relatively stable once they are about 2yrs. and up? Thanks for any answers

Matukawa bake and Kumonryu are very close relatives.

So far, her change is beyond my imagination.......

[Brutuscz]

I have read that kumonryu was created by crossing a matsubawake and a shusui. That is why kumonryu often have a red belly.

[Brutuscz]

Here are a few of mine. Four kumonryu, a matsubawake and a ginga(ginrin matsubawake). I have been studying them all season. So far...the all white kumonryu on the right looks the best. The ones with heavy black are spilling over and becoming all black koi. It's been a good way to study sumi in my new pond. The ginga is my favorite....growing like a weed and looking awesome. I will update pics next season.

[Eugeneg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz Here are a few of mine. Four kumonryu, a matsubawake and a ginga(ginrin matsubawake). I have been studying them all season. So far...the all white kumonryu on the right looks the best. The ones with heavy black are spilling over and becoming all black koi. It's been a good way to study sumi in my new pond. The ginga is my favorite....growing like a weed and looking awesome. I will update pics next season.

I have 3 kumonreo tosai which I will study they are from a 96cm mother so will give them a few years and see how they turn out . Good way to kill a long winter as with the heating costs I do not think that I can afford to go S this year .
Regards
Eugene

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz Here are a few of mine. Four kumonryu, a matsubawake and a ginga(ginrin matsubawake). I have been studying them all season. So far...the all white kumonryu on the right looks the best. The ones with heavy black are spilling over and becoming all black koi. It's been a good way to study sumi in my new pond. The ginga is my favorite....growing like a weed and looking awesome. I will update pics next season.

I think a Ginga is a scaled Kikokuryu not a Gin Rin Matsukawabake. A Gin Rin Matsukawabake is just that, a Gin Rin Matsukawabake.

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters I think a Ginga is a scaled Kikokuryu not a Gin Rin Matsukawabake. A Gin Rin Matsukawabake is just that, a Gin Rin Matsukawabake.

Actually Russ, a Kikokuryu is a metallic doitsugoi. I believe, if not mistaken, that they gave the name Ginja to a ginrin Hajiro or Hashijiro. Maybe Super Kindai or JR can help clear this one up.

Mike

[Super Kindai]

They are complicated, aren't they?


Karasu (= crow bird) goi = No white, deep navy/black

Hajiro = White pectorial fins

Hage shiro (or Yotu shiro)= white head & pec fins & tail fin

Kumonryu (originaly with scale)

Kumonryu (Doitu)

Matukawa bake

Kikokuryu = Metallic Kumonryu ( Doitu)

Ginga = Ginrin scaled Kumonryu or Ginrin Matukawa bake.....??

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Kindai They are complicated, aren't they? Karasu (= crow bird) goi = No white, deep navy/black Hajiro = White pectorial fins Hage shiro (or Yotu shiro)= white head & pec fins & tail fin Kumonryu (originaly with scale) Kumonryu (Doitu) Matukawa bake Kikokuryu = Metallic Kumonryu ( Doitu) Ginga = Ginrin scaled Kumonryu or Ginrin Matukawa bake.....??

I stand corrected.