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Old 01-02-2008   #11 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Originally Posted by B.Scott View Post
Solar-electric pannels are about to get a whole lot cheaper! A new method of production is about to reduce the price of pannels to about $1000 per KW.

Nanosolar Blog » Nanosolar Ships First Panels

B.Scott
THIS is another reason I wanna stick around..technology is going so fast it seems we are living in a time machine
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Old 01-02-2008   #12 (permalink)
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Indeed!
Considering they have already sold-out their first year of production and most likely a large chunk of the next years production as well This could well be on it's way to becoming a must have item.But like anything, if there is the demand the production will follow.

Here where I live we are paying about EUR. 0.23 per kilowatt/hr for mains electricity so this is very intersting to me with that big flat roof on top of my house!

Strange to read that the most profitable sales area are Spain and Germany with the USA almost a no-go area due to conflicting city codes and gooberment bureaucracy.

They mention the wholesale price for the panels alone as being $0.99 per watt so that would make the actual cost of a retail/installed system closer to $3.00 per watt BEFORE ANY EVENTUAL SUBSIDY. So all we no need is an efficient way to store that energy and use it when we need it instead of selling it to the utility company for a less than it's worth.

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Old 01-02-2008   #13 (permalink)
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The new Lithium ion batteries!
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Old 01-02-2008   #14 (permalink)
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The new Lithium ion batteries!
You mean like the ones that blow up inside you cell-phone and laptop? If a cell phone battery can kill can you imagine what one big enough to power a house (and pond) would do?

I am seriously waiting for a laptop battery to explode on an aircraft so that we can not only remove our shoes at the airport but the batteries in the phones and computers as well. Just a matter of time.

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Old 01-02-2008   #15 (permalink)
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given that this hobby consumes a lot of electricity. I am curious who in this hobby are generating renewable enerygy, and what form ?

stan
Ate a Pork Roast with sauerkraut just a little while ago. I'm sure I'll be generating some aromatic hydrocarbons any time now...

In all seriousness it is a good topic. My future "dream setup" plans include passive solar heat with ground bed storage and solar with battery storage for at least a portion of the electrical needs. Of course my dream setup includes hydroponic gardens in extra long bay settlement troughs too...
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Old 01-02-2008   #16 (permalink)
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Ate a Pork Roast with sauerkraut just a little while ago. I'm sure I'll be generating some aromatic hydrocarbons any time now...
Ah.....finally someone who understands me.
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Old 01-02-2008   #17 (permalink)
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Ah.....finally someone who understands me.

Oh, believe me, I understood you!!!!!!!
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Old 01-02-2008   #18 (permalink)
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Brett,
Actually there is new technology in coal powered powerplants. They are called "Futuregen." The first is being built about 70 miles southwest of us in Mattoon Illinois and has virtually no emmissions. From the burning coal, Hydrogen and CO2 emmissions are made. The CO2 is then compressed and pumped into salt domes in the ground. The hydrogen is then sold for fuel as well. Not really coal related but very interesting and prommising.

Steve
Howdy Steve,

UM, er....that palnt was SUPPOSED to be built in Texas, Illinois stole it from us!

My brother-in-law was telling me about that. He has been in power generation for the last 25 years (20 of those on ships in the Navy). I worry about sequestering anything in salt domes that is a gas or a liquid. About once every ten years or so one of those salt domes full of LPG, LNG or other stuff decides to explode, when it does, its impressive. I've seen (and/or felt) two such. I wonder if the CO2 will stay put once its there. I know it won;t explode, but a lot of CO2 let out of somewhere at once can kill folks, lots of them. It happened in Cameroon many years ago.

I've seen ideas about sequestering CO2 in deep ocean basins. One such naturally occuring basin already exists, hundreds of square miles of liquid CO2 under a few miles of ocean water. The temperature and pressure keeps the CO2 liquid and in place.

I saw the coal gasification plant in Florida. They gasify the coal, burn it in a gas turbine, then use the turbine exhaust to operate a steam turbine. They are not sequestering the CO2, but they do get all the energy possible in the two part process.

Still, nothing has impressed me like the wind turbines up in Central Texas. Zero emissions. I was told the installation cost is a million bucks a megawatt, which figures to a buck a watt ($1000 per kilowatt). Which looks to be currently much cheaper than solar and still competitive if the solar technology improves dramatically as predicted. Payoff is about three years at average production rates. Warranty is five years, and expected life is 25 years per installation. All parts of the installation are easily recycled. Less than one bird in ten thousand is at risk from the wind turbines. If you want to save birds, leave the turbines alone and kill housecats, they get more birds than anything else.

I don;t know that much about it, but my BIL says that solar produces DC power that must be converted to AC or the house must have DC powered appliances. Apparenty its not that difficult to convert to AC if solar installations are contributing to the grid.

I am not able to run my generator in a way to contribute to the grid, I must manually bring it on and offline. The engine technology I'm using is over 100 years old. Lister/Petter style engines adapt really well to vegetable oil as fuel. Modern diesels must have to oil converted to bio-diesel, a somewhat difficult and energy consumptive process.

I also try and use as effecient of equipmetn as I can get. A lot of my big stuff is three phase.

The wind blows plenty here at the coast and I've looked at wind turbines, but at a small size (say 15 KW), the cost is prohibitive.

I pay 14.1 centes per KHW, the highest rate of any fish farmer or other farmer that I know of.

Brett
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Old 01-03-2008   #19 (permalink)
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My pond consumes 30KW-hr of electricity daily. My swimming pool eats another 10 KWhr. My top rate is $0.36429/kwHr, charged by PG&E. This is pretty bad to the environment.

My Photovotaic system is 7.5Kw rated. Total cost $70K, rebate from Arnold Schwarzennegger $16K. My cost is $54K. My contrctor said I will recover the cost in 9 years (another said 6), my worksheet says 13. However long it may be, I don't really mind.

I like to add to what Phil said: In California, you need to get on the E7 rate badwagon. With this rate schedule, the peak rate happens between 12Noon and 6PM. If you produce electricity and 'sent' it to PG&E, you are credited for $0.3849/KwHr during the peak. You pay $0.36429/KwHr for electricity you get from PG&E. In general, PV produces the most power durinig peak, and I will likely end up with quite some surplus. So, the rate differences will help me recovering the cost.

stan
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Old 01-03-2008   #20 (permalink)
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Out of curiosity Stan, What do you pay for off-peak electricity?

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