Koi Dealer Best Health Practices Certification Program

[PapaBear]

JR, I think you may have missed my point because you and I are pretty much on the same page here.
The passers through who see Koi as nothing more than a novelty to swim in a pond'o'rocks are the hopeless cases as are their favorite suppliers (peddlers of the fake rolex's). There is little hope for them unless they get hooked and start discovering places like this forum and a few others as they move upward in their self-education. They will quickly abandon their old ways and PS/Wallyworld Koi will become nothing but a painful memory to them.

That is why I said the only real value of such a certification would be to newcomers to the ranks of dealers/breeders who decide to aim higher. Sadly that number will be small, but the good news for us is the fact that we do have those on your short list that we can have confidence in already, certification or not, they have "the right stuff" and the Koi Culture knows it.

[aquitori]

Do all breeder/dealers do 100% serology testing on all stocks? I think the answer is NO...I think the organization the dealers/breeder fall under should be the ones managing those questioned and not the hobbyist level organizations.

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Am I the only one who sees a profound lack of focus coupled with a sprinkling of manic desire for the endorphin known as 'self importance '?

No, JR, you're not the only one who sees it.

Some folks just can't resist their messianic impulses to save the (fill in the blank) through a combination of bureaucracy and regulation. I believe they're called liberals?

[schildkoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR uuuhhh, if people who are keeping koi in goldfish ponds have not heard of AKCA or ZNA ,they are not currently in the koi hobby and certainly not part of the koi keeping culture. They are simple people trying to keep koi. This body of folks is often passing through the keeping of koi. It is the equivalent of the 10 gallon tank sold to the 10 year old for a while. It is set up for a time and is destined to be in the next spring garage sale the family has. So every person who purchases a tateshita from Petsmart or a local garden center is not to 'be saved'. The koi culture is not affilated with any Evangelist movement?! So 'saving Petsmart' and the teens that run it, should not be in a koi culture mission statement. I read these threads about how burnt out the koi hobby is, how poorly staffed ZNA is, how the shows are declining and clubs are folding because members are getting too old and can't do what they used to. I then read threads that talk about how the clubs and associations need to save the wholesale breeder industry from KHV and start programs and rules for dealer behavior and dealer education. Am I the only one who sees a profound lack of focus coupled with a sprinkling of manic desire for the endorphin known as 'self importance '? really folks, lest walk before we run. And take a moment to ask ourselves, do I really know what the koi culture is? And have I done anything to help support IT? JR I'll begin. If you want a real koi dealer with knowledge above your own here is the START of a list: Domestic stock: 1) Brett Rawley- Brett's koi farm 2) Mat McCann - Quality koi/ Nisai koi farm 3) Brady Brandwood - Lotus pond farms 4) Purdin koi farm - Bill McGirk East Coast ( Japanese stock) 1) again , quality koi 2) Ray Able - Nishikigoi of Niigata 3) Mark Bodycott- USA KOI West Coast ( Japanese stock) 1) Eastern Nishikigoi 2) Genki koi 3) Champion 4) Pan Intercorp 5) mystic 6) Peters These are only the one's I KNOW and feel comfortable recommending. There are at least a dozen others that you might like to add. Each club or chapter should support these individual small businessmen. This will build a critical mass of reliable dealers. Nothing succeeds like success. Vote with your pocket book. JR

Hmmmm, I know of more than one on that list that do not do serology testing for KHV and yet they fall into the "reputable dealer listing".

Yep, no need for a certification program......LOL

"What one thinks what is, may in fact not be what is." --- Steve Childers 2008

Steve

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop No, JR, you're not the only one who sees it. Some folks just can't resist their messianic impulses to save the (fill in the blank) through a combination of bureaucracy and regulation. I believe they're called liberals?

Don, you are a very bad man... And I really, really like it

Been listening to Hitlary Clinton sound bites on the news all day I'm suffering from liberal OD

[Louie]

I am surprised that Andrews Koi International is not on JR`s list of trusted dealers . I am there most every time a shipment of koi come in. There are a number of tanks set up and each breeder has its own tank or tanks. A serology test for KHV is taken from each breeder`s shipment. Dr. Rob Hildrith takes these test`s and the fish are kept in QT until the reports come back safe. I know supra verm is used along with a high consentration of salt. What other meds I do not know. Pictures are available to reserve a fish with no obligation to buy. When fish are out of QT then they are tubed and not before. This is not a plug I am just telling you what I have seen and I like the extra precautions that are taken with new fish arrivals. Saying all that I still reccomend that no matter where you buy QT your fish.
Louie
I reread JR`s post and he said those were the one`s he knew about, glad to add anothe to the list

[Beniguy]

Very noble idea. Kind of like the BBB, get a plaque for the wall.
I kinda got hung up on the word "amatuer"

1.a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons. Compare professional. 2.an athlete who has never competed for payment or for a monetary prize. 3.a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity: Hunting lions is not for amateurs. 4.a person who admires something; devotee; fan: an amateur of the cinema. –adjective 5.characteristic of or engaged in by an amateur; nonprofessional: an amateur painter; amateur tennis.
.

[Fishbreeder]

Hard for me to keep bitin' my tongue, ain't got much tongue left as it is...

There is a coupla things what seems self evident to me.

First and foremost, I always thunk the AKCA was a hobby organization whose primary mission was the education of the hobbyist. Part of that being educating the hobbyist as a discerning and intelligent consumer. Many other parts like managing a system, water chemistry, animal husbandry, and even ancillary subjects. I always supported that aspect of the AKCA, and pretty much feel they done a good job. But its not for me to judge, that would be for the people AKCA sees as thier cosntituents' job.

Now, another thing. There ain't no doubt there is plenty of ignorant folks, carpetbaggers, and downright charlatans in the koi biz. All aspects of the biz, not just in livestock purveyance.

So, is the AKCA gonna certify pond builders? Far as I'm concerned idiot pond builders does more damage to koi than KHV, SVC, an' the rest of the alphabet combined. You ever tried to clean up an' fix a three year old Aquascapes pond with koi in it you'll know what I'm talkin' about.

Then you got numbnutz pool service folks what think they can service a fish pond, they gonna need a certificate too, big one on the side of they truck.

Back to my list. Ignorant, but honest folks either gonna learn or go away. You ain't gonna do much good with them tryin' to certify 'em before they got enough sense to even operate. If they are serious, they'll smart up pretty quick or the well educated, AKCA member ain't gonna spend their hard earned bucks there.

Carpetbaggers, they gonna come and go no matter what you do. They won;t be around long enough to obtain a certification, and if you (AKCA) done your job half right, none of your members is gonna buy anything from any fly-by-nighters anyhow, so they only got the uneducated, non-members to prey upon. Oughta help you drive up membership if you play your cards right...

Downright charlatans, they are gonna get around any program you come up with. These are the ones that can screw folks up and the ones that some kind of program needs to catch. These are the ones that you (AKCA) needs to work the hardest at teaching your constituency about. These are the ones you havta be sure you are not taking thier ads in your publications. But still, these will either get your certification, then ultimately bite you in the arse with it, or figure a way, maybe a very distasteful way, around it.

Dealers and breeders need to be seperate. Of course many are both.

Last, as a farmer, I think there is a need to have some kind of thing for farmers. But not a thing concieved, managed, and funds collected by, a hobby organization. A University, State, Feds, governmental body. If you look, some stuff already in place, some coming down the pike.

I have to beleive that AKCA's best service to thier constituency is still in the realm of education and not in the realm of trying to regulate the koi trade.

Brett

[John Seifert]

Brett
Wow! Excellent! Amen!!!
Only the breeders, importers, wholesalers & retailers can requlate this industry. It is they that need to have the organization to do it and put some teeth into it. The AKCA's best practices program will be a joke.
John Seifert, past chairman, Pacific NW Koi Clubs Association

[KoiCop]

Well said, Brett. Much appreciated.