Picking For Future Size ?

[HEADACHE6]

When purchasing Tosai or even Nisai what are the Things/Traits you Look for in a Koi for Picking For Future Size ?

I'm wanting to Compile Information for a Article for a Club Newsletter .

Thank's In Advance

[luke frisbee]

A train gets further down the tracks if it starts fast and never slows down

[gofish]

Troy, one of the main things i look for in 2 yearolds and older is a good backbone or hump in back. If a fish does not have i will not buy most the time. Now in tosai this is a little harder to see. Then I look at shoulders and really these are the first 2 things i look at then go to pattern.



Marc

[l113892]

Distance between the eyes. Size of the pces.

[HEADACHE6]

Marc ,

I know some hobbiest will view Tosia in a bowl and look for the Taller koi (The one that has it's back out of the water the most) .

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 Marc , I know some hobbiest will view Tosia in a bowl and look for the Taller koi (The one that has it's back out of the water the most) .

That plays a part, bot only one IMHO. The suggestion of eye placement, finnage, and mouth size (my addition) would also need to be considered.
We had 2 chagoi we were growing out to learn with. Both stood high in the water as you describe, but one had a better proportioned head, eye placement, mouth size, and finnage. Although they were hatched on the same day, the better conformed one outgrew the other nearly 2-1, while the smaller actually wound up standing higher at the shoulder in the end....

[HEADACHE6]

So Mr. Bear , You look for a Koi with a Larger Mouth compared to other Koi of the same size ?

[Eugeneg]

[quote=HEADACHE6;106203]When purchasing Tosai or even Nisai what are the Things/Traits you Look for in a Koi for Picking For Future Size ?

I'm wanting to Compile Information for a Article for a Club Newsletter .

Large parents produce large fish so one would have to purchase jumbo tosai in the first place and then look for a longer body length . You can not just look in a tank of fish and pick one saying this one will be a jumbo it will not happen . During a semminar Toshio Sakai showed us some 4in long tosai pointing to the smallest he said this is the youngest that is one of the best and it will grow to around 85cm . He put a price tag of $800 on it and it sold right away .
At the back of the big indoor pond at Momotaro are some tanks . They are labelled 10,000, 20000, and 30000 yen . per tosai fish.
In the main greenhouse are the tosai of higher quality but higher priced some will be auctioned . Others will be grown to nisai and could fetch up to $40000 at an auction .
There is a cost of doing bussines so if a dealer had to pay $500 for a tosai each he would have to charge a $1000 or more as there is a risk factor besides a profit margin .
I did get a couple ofmale nisai . One male Sanke has the body of a female and is 57cm long so it will probably grow to 80 cm a dealer would have to get about $4000 for it .
So if you want large fish breeders like Momotaro is a sure way .
You are not simply going to pick a big fish from a tank . Even fish that are close to a meter long produce but a small number that will grow above 80cm . Nor is a spawn succesfull in producing high quality every year from the same pairing and a whole spawn has to be culled . Hope this helps
Regards
Eugene

[dick benbow]

cause it includes all of the rumors and folk lore about selection......

just a coupla comments to help with perspective
to focus on just a big hump can create problems down the line as the koi developes a football shape. I think it might be more sage to say we don't want a flat shoulder behind the head, nor do we want an exaggerated one either.

I have grown out some smaller females as tosai that have easily caught up in growth with their brothers and sisters in 3-4 years.

to futhur explain the mouth as "large", I might better discribe it as wide. The proportion of the head is important as well. What could be discribed as a long head is favorable to expect growth from. the distance from the nose to the eye, is measured by your eye and that distance is placed from the eye to the gill plate. There should be half again as much space there than the nose to the eye (sideview)

last year when a local dealer received a shipment of toshio sakai's koi, I was able to spot a magoi bloodline koi because of the extreme length of the body. I was able to point that out to a customer and once in a pan with others could easily see the difference. I'm sorry I didn't have a camera to document but it does show that close to 30 years of focusing on one bloodline helps you to understand where certain koi are coming from and the mindset of the breeder.

I've attached a picture of the sanke I selected from that batch after going thru 300 koi. Perfect pattern...No...quality of skin, yes. the matsunosuke Gin seen as two rows of reflective scales told me it would develop nice skin. the black is quality also. This fish appears thin but because of the knowledge of the bloodline I know it will be like this for 6-8 years before it starts to pack on the weight. I mention this as an indication of the importance of knowing the breeder of the koi your purchasing.

[RogerL]

Would anyone care to comment on the tail tube? Both "girth" and distance from dorsal fin to tail?

Thanks.