Buying fish for show, then returning it to the dealer if it doesnt win.....

[dick benbow]

This situation misses the entire point of keeping koi....
It's not about winning, It's about learning, and improvement, and taking pride in an accomplishment. and the wonderful friendship from the hobby.....

Winning for the sake of winning says something about the hollow character of the person.
If they had an unlimited bankroll, and won 20 top shows in a roll, I'd bet you that would not satisfy them.

I'm drawn to the hobbyists that works hard to put the show on, supports it and helps clean it up. they may not even win a prize but the integrity of their character, and the contribution they make to the hobby will long outlast the fleeting glory of having an unearned name on a traveling trophy these koi are not a commodity to have their life traded for an evenings glory. You see this in other sports like horse racing, greyhounds,etc....it is a cancer on our society that places the well being of any animal in such low regard.

[JasPR]

Amen, to that post, Dick! Amen. JR

[KoiCop]

Well said, Dick, and I couldn't agree more.

It's obvious that hobbyists like you have ethics which obviate the need for controls.

Unfortunately, there are those who want to debate what the meaning of 'is' is so they can get around the rules -- and then there are those who want to waste time designing elaborate hypothetical rules for others to control the unruly when there are already rules in place.

[Seefdro Tvneik]

Koi Cop kind of sounds like Ron Paul.....Just trying to make a funny.

Quote: Unfortunately, there are those who want to debate what the meaning of 'is' is so they can get around the rules -- and then there are those who want to waste time designing elaborate hypothetical rules for others to control the unruly when there are already rules in place.

Amen, the koi constitution has spoken!!!!

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow This situation misses the entire point of keeping koi.... It's not about winning, It's about learning, and improvement, and taking pride in an accomplishment. and the wonderful friendship from the hobby..... Winning for the sake of winning says something about the hollow character of the person. If they had an unlimited bankroll, and won 20 top shows in a roll, I'd bet you that would not satisfy them. I'm drawn to the hobbyists that works hard to put the show on, supports it and helps clean it up. they may not even win a prize but the integrity of their character, and the contribution they make to the hobby will long outlast the fleeting glory of having an unearned name on a traveling trophy these koi are not a commodity to have their life traded for an evenings glory. You see this in other sports like horse racing, greyhounds,etc....it is a cancer on our society that places the well being of any animal in such low regard.

Jaspr,
I thought you were part of the "we should appreciate the rich person buying a decent koi for us to see because we can't raise one like that" and it is "all about the koi"

Shows need to have a Simple well-defined Goal...and establish rules to provide an environment inwhich that goal can florish

[cmungo]

I'm not sure how the 3 month rule would work for size 1 fish in a Fall Show. These fish are usually 8" or less and would have been breed in the April-June time frame. Not much time for a breeder to get it up to selling size 3 months before a Sept-Nov show.

The same would apply for Baby Grand competitors. Most dealers/breeders would hold those until they are 10-11" to get the best price. If you kept it 3 months then it might be size 3 by the time the show starts.

[gspotmc]

It would probably apply only to big fish.

[Auntiesue]

Quote: Originally Posted by cmungo I'm not sure how the 3 month rule would work for size 1 fish in a Fall Show. These fish are usually 8" or less and would have been breed in the April-June time frame. Not much time for a breeder to get it up to selling size 3 months before a Sept-Nov show. The same would apply for Baby Grand competitors. Most dealers/breeders would hold those until they are 10-11" to get the best price. If you kept it 3 months then it might be size 3 by the time the show starts.

We have limited exceptions for sizes 1 and 2.

Luke, to respond to your comment about dealers being in charge of our local club. They aren't, but believe it or not, Koi Acres is on our board (member at large as he has a commercial interest-we have strict rules about this as well) and he/they were instrumental in promoting that 3 month rule for our show. I think that says volumes for a dealer that is truly interested in the amature show succeeding. They are also one of our major volunteer sources during the season and the show. They pay their way and get no special treatment (or expect any) from the club, but still continue to offer help everywhere they can.

Sue

[MikeM]

Luke: All good points, as always. The difficulty is that the goal of most shows is to have broad participation, with lots of entries and high quality. There is the conundrum: to get high quality requires a balancing so a thousand pond mutts are not all that get entered. If we were truly interested in everyone 'having an equal chance', I guess we would have to have a random distribution of eggs with everyone to come back in 5 years with what they could raise up. It would be interesting, but not much of a show. Don's point is pretty clear... there are rules. Evasion should not be allowed. It's always tough drawing the line between evasion (bad) and avoidance (OK). But, somebody has to do it. A show chair or committee committed to a goal of building a show will draw a fair enough balance. Ain't no perfect koi. Ain't no perfect rule.

[Fishbreeder]

This thread reminds me of a book I read once. Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut.

There is no even playing field, some folks are wealthy, others are not. Some have spent years and years learning how to select and care for thier animals, others have not.

While I know that nobody can keep koi without money, I have seen some folks make up for thier lack in funds through becoming better informed and making better informed decisions on how to select and care for thier fish.

As a guy who sets up a booth at some shows and tries to make his way in the world as a fishmonger, the idea of not allowng new purchases into the competition is repugnant to me. Every show I attend has a few folks that wish to buy and enter a fish at the show. That can be as much as 20% of the entire weekend's take.

Saying that, there is no doubt that I have the greatest respect for those that chose and grew thier own koi into show form and brought them to the show for evaluation.

Brett