Buying fish for show, then returning it to the dealer if it doesnt win.....

[JasPR]

A guide for luke to print out and glue on the refrigerator door:

a koi show is about a fun competition, not life or death competition. The only thing we do need, is to preserve the reputation of this educational event as being above and beyond reproach. That means no cheating or manipulation of outcome.

a poor amateur may enter a koi in the show
a well off amateur can enter a fish in the koi show
a fabulously rich amateur can enter a fish in a koi show

Depending on their pocketbook, they each tend to dominate certain size groups and certain awards. The fish has no idea who owns them or the size of their owners bank accounts. And the fish is the object of the event and awards, not the owner. UNLESS the 'owner' is effecting the 'above reproach' image of the event . And THAT is what dealers potentially can do. ( please note: this is different than an open/combined show where amateurs and dealers compete)
Sooo, get the refrig magnets ready-------
a poor dealer can not enter an amateur koi show
a rich dealer can not enter an amateur koi show

[Fishbreeder]

Amen again.

Many, many times I've watched highly educated, esteemed, and well steeped koi judges pick the "poor man's" $300 kohaku over the "rich man's" $5000 showa. The judge had no idea which fish belonged to who or how much was paid for each fish, only the trained eye to decide which koi is better at this precise moment.

Yep, most of the time the $5000 koi trumps the $300 koi, but not always.

Hobby shows are for hobbiests. Hobbiests come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and frames of mind, but thay do all have one thing in common...they don't make money from thier hobby, they spend money on thier hobby. If they make money from thier hobby, they are no longer hobbiests, no longer elegible to enter a hobby show as such.

Brett

[mstrseed]

So Brett, have you sold me that $300 kohaku yet..................................

[Mtn ponder]

Hey you beat me to the punch. I was going to ask him to sell me one of these 300 dollar kohaku's.

[Fishbreeder]

Get in line....

Story told after the sale and after the show......

Well, I THOUGHT that fish was gonna be a ringer. I guess it just wasn't its day. You know I got another fish back at the shop, its just a little bit more than the one you just bought, but its a whole lot more likely to win a big prize at .......

Maybe I need to go into the "rent to own" koi biz. I'll rent the fish out for $300 a weekend, if it wins a prize say as big as "Best in Size" then the fish is sold for $3000 to the renter, if not, it gets rented out again later for the next show.

Hmmmm....this might work.....

Call me.

Brett

[RayJordan]

Seems like similar threads about this subject are recreated every year or so. I would love to know the names of all koi dealers/breeders that will guarantee in writing their koi. I am not talking just about a guarantee to win Grand Champion but just a guarantee that they are healthy and if sold as female the seller will refund price or offer replacement if turns out to be male.

Dealers or breeders that would falsely enter a koi under a hobbyists name in a show without being paid up front on the promise from the hobbyists they will pay for the koi if it wins GC seems very unlikely to me. the seller would have to really trust the buyer to keep their side of the bargain. Think about it a crooked seller will think buyers are equally as dishonest so would demand payment up front. Also the seller would want to really jack up the price for a deal like this. Afterall if it doesn't win and word gets around this particular high priced koi didn't make the grade. Price will definately go way down. So pricing at double ot triple would be necessary in order to have a profitable fall back position to sell the koi after the show.

I cannot imagine that many will make this guarantee and live up to it. I don't say this to be negative about koi professionals. I know that the ones worth doing business with are smarter and more ethical about their business practices.

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR A guide for luke to print out and glue on the refrigerator door: a koi show is about a fun competition, not life or death competition. The only thing we do need, is to preserve the reputation of this educational event as being above and beyond reproach. That means no cheating or manipulation of outcome. a poor amateur may enter a koi in the show a well off amateur can enter a fish in the koi show a fabulously rich amateur can enter a fish in a koi show Depending on their pocketbook, they each tend to dominate certain size groups and certain awards. The fish has no idea who owns them or the size of their owners bank accounts. And the fish is the object of the event and awards, not the owner. UNLESS the 'owner' is effecting the 'above reproach' image of the event . And THAT is what dealers potentially can do. ( please note: this is different than an open/combined show where amateurs and dealers compete) Sooo, get the refrig magnets ready------- a poor dealer can not enter an amateur koi show a rich dealer can not enter an amateur koi show

well JasPR..
a rich breeder can definitely be an amateur..need a specific name?

and as to another issue..
yep let the richest fellah that wantts to enter a koi in the show enter it...as long as it comes from his pond,
I'll even agree to him buying a koi and having some breeder care for it and take it to a show for him as long as he doesn't go up to the podium and take the trophy and congratilations. i will be willing to let the breeder of the koi do that.
the Breeder of the koi could say something like I am sure brett would say..
"I wanna Thank mr. Strabucks For buying this koi and paying me to raise it up...M y kids got all the textbooks they needed and even got some of em brand new ...
I hope he enjoys and don't ruin it to quick."

Tell that fellah that you will be staying with while going to CFKS that I'd feel honored if he brought over ANY koi he HAS in HIS BACKYARD to compete against my pond mutts and domestic crap...but if he's gotta buy one and pay someone else to make it into something then he needs his head felt...with a 2x4.
I love to see good fish..sometimes I go to Ray Abell's sales vat just so I can...
But when a fellah puts a koi in a shw it shoulda come from his house.

[nezueagle]

The Koi Club of San Diego has investigated this matter and we have concluded that there was in fact no violation of our show rules, and as far as we are able to determine, no intent to circumvent the KCSD rules. We would like to thank those who brought this possible problem to our attention as it has renewed our commitment to the integrity of our show as a hobbyist competition. The continued legitimacy of koi shows requires that all of us be alert to both intentional and unintentional noncompliance with the standards we have set for amateur shows.

Bill Thompson, President
Koi Club of San Diego

[KoiCop]

Thanks, Bill. Glad to hear it.