spring time. do you believe in areonomas alley?

[PapaBear]

Originally Posted by 111whalen

So, do you feel that there is a certain temp this occurs? In So Cal, several hobbyists have had the most problem at 60-65 degrees. Our water rarely goes below 50; in fact this year mine never did. It was a cool winter and the pond stayed 51-53 for well over a month. I started feeding about 3 weeks ago at about 55 degrees. I am now up to once a day and the pond reads 59-61. I do expect it to rise the next several days.
Because you folks "in the cold" go colder, does that change the alley? I realize that there are many factors, but is there evidence that certain temps favor the bad bugs over the good? Inquiring minds...

I referred to it as "Dirty Ditch Water Syndrome" only half jokingly. I don't know what the details are on the ponds you mention, but at those temps a healthy pond shouldn't create an infectious environment. The fact that pathogens are almost inevitably present does not make fish sick. An unhealthy environment that degrades overall health allows opportunistic pathogens to gain a foothold, and that is the problem.
It always amazes me to hear people talk about the annual spring cleaning of a pond full of decaying leaves and debris, tannin laden water, and re-living the same health issues on an annual basis. How the hell did they allow a pond filled with fish get so nasty in the first place??? We have some rough winters around here most of the time. I don't have an indoor facility to move my Koi to. We don't have a greenhouse, or a giant heater to keep things warm and toasty either. We also don't have dead fish or mounds of crap in the bottom of the pond to compromise their health, because we don't stop taking care of the little things just because it is cold outside. Cleaning up the obvious will take care of 90% of the problems lurking around the corner. It really isn't any more complicated than that in my book.

[moikoi]

Originally Posted by PapaBear

It always amazes me to hear people talk about the annual spring cleaning of a pond full of decaying leaves and debris, tannin laden water, and re-living the same health issues on an annual basis. How the hell did they allow a pond filled with fish get so nasty in the first place??? We have some rough winters around here most of the time.

i always hand net all the leaves after a big storm.

[lypope]

I have to agree with what Larry said, since we live in the same region. I don't cover the pond in the winter, nor do I heat - maybe after I win the lottery but not now. Everything remains running and I do water changes all winter long, not as often as I do during spring and summer, but at least once a week. We are lucky to live in a relatively temperate zone and I seldom have ice on the pond, although occasionally I will see ice on the waterfall for a very short time. My koi only had problems the first spring I lived here, and I think that was more owner stupidity than anything else. Knock on wood, my koi have come out of every winter since fat and healthy.

[dick benbow]

What i think would be funny if we could talk one of our local domestic breeders into creating a street sign on their farm that looked "official" and was named after that famous alley! Unless some city wants to start a koi hall of fame and then rename the street accordingly

[MikeM]

LOL, good one Dick.

MarkW: I think any problems observed in that temperature range relate to what went before, not the temperature range. That said, I also think Spring can be rough on koi, even if they have not experienced a truly cold winter. Spring is a time of sudden fluctuations in weather, hormonal changes, etc. Add deteriorated pond conditions from ignoring regular maintenance, and issues can arise.

[111whalen]

Response: I think many people start their heavy feeding to early. they are ahead of the filter and the fish. Therefore, you get food staying in the fish and a filter not working up to speed...It amazes me how many "upper end" koi people end up injecting and treating their ponds every spring. I guess (I know) I am lucky so far-I rarely need to treat but I see lots of locals with issues!

[KoiCop]

Originally Posted by 111whalen

I think many people start their heavy feeding to early.

I definitely agree, Mark.

One relative newbie I met at Gardena told me they're feeding twice a day. Not only can that trash water quality, but a lot of the energy from feeding that heavily at this time of the year will be going towards egg production.

We're still feeding wheat germ once a week and have been since Jan 1 -- even though our water temps have been up and down in the 54-61 degree range that entire time.

Starting April 1 we'll increase the frequency; later we'll increase the amount; and not 'till June will we start mixing in a higher protein feed.

I guess that puts us way out on the conservative end?