Where have you gained most of your Koi Knowledge?

[mstrseed]

I first went to a water garden store for my first bits of information. They suggested to read a book on pond construction , which they sold. It was a good book, not great but had one saying in it that stuck, plan it out build it bigger...................................

We attended a local water garden fair at a local water garden park which was know for its water lilies and lotus. We were invited by the Austin Koi Club, information we got from them was way different than from anywhere else. I believe they were more interested in a better environment for the Koi we wanted as opposed to what the pond looked like.

I was told good information was available on the internet, so I used and still do use this resource.
Like anything in life, on the internet or in a book, gleaning what is truth and fiction is solely in the hands of the person seeking the information.

When in doubt, I have many resource's I can call on (on the phone) . I do not believe they would lead me astray as they are trusted mentors who have been in the hobby (business) for many years. I learn what I can then ask, whom I know to firm it up..............................................

[Eugeneg]

The internet is still a baby and it's wild to think about the future knowledge it will offer. In fact if someone wanted to it will be possible to put ALL the information ever written about koi on a little chip. Maybe even for FREE .[/quote]

That is perfectly true one could methodically find all the information may be more than all the books and magazines combined . The problem arises in source onthe internet which is quite often inaccurate . Let us just compare a book even a little outdated ; Koi Kichi #1 for an example . How would someone with little knowledge compose an index of inforamation that he might need or refer to ? Then comes the cost of printing out and filing some of that information for easy access . Most photos are of inssuficient size to even print out .
That is why in life some people can spend countless Hr on a computer each day be very knowledgeble yet achive little in their lives .
When some of you young people get over 70 years of age you will realize that time is not repleneshable . So rather than spend countless Hrs on the computer or phonening mentours and useing their valuble time it would be wise to first buy a good book such as Koi Kichi study it thourally and only then further increase your knowledge by the internet ,clubs ,shows etc. This way you can study and learn in a more efficient manner .
Useing methods like I have stated in ones life one can achive a lot more in a liftime .
Regards
Eugene

[Brutuscz]

I try to read a great deal...I tend to study and memorize things like I am still in Medical School. I have the help of Steve Stone at comets to koi, a very knowledgable guy. I can also say that this board has been a huge part of my learning. When I think about when I first started here...and what I considered a good koi. The difference between then and now is huge. In addition, I also like KP and koivet as well. I really try to soak up the information like a sponge. I am planning on doing a show again this season...so, we'll see how much progress I've made!!

[JasPR]

I think there is another angle here when it comes to a solid learning curve, and one that many on this board can relate to and have benefitted from. And that is a life time of keeping fish of all kinds. And although not everything in the aquarium hobby translates to the koi keeping hobby, much of it does bring one to a fundamental understanding of what fish need to do well. Many of you might take this for granted, but if you watch those who have little or no experience with tropical fish you can see that they are at a severe disadvantage when trying to grasp the importance of pond design and the needs of creatures that live in their own waste within a closed system.

I sometimes think that the years spent in youth with guppies, mollies, angel fish and then Africans, marines, reefs etc was all a tutelage for the keeping koi well. Each level of those other hobbies prepared me for keeping the king of all hobby fishes.

If you were lucky enough to come to the hobby via this route than all you need to do is focus on the beginning of koi, it's roots and it's traditions and the early ephanies. if you get this far, you have the ground work for really getting deep into koi. I of course, recommend ZNA as an environment were you can reach the next level without distraction from goldfish, longfins etc. But that's me and some of you may not be that interested in koi as unique forms and favor the generalist gardener position, with koi being another outlet within American water gardening. But I digress----

- JR

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR well Luke, as a famous man once said - " the profit of books is according to the sensibility of the reader" Books provide perspective. And in mass, they tell the 'whole story'. Personal experience is limited and untested and word of mouth and the Internet is heresay. - JR

hmmm,
I'll have to put this up everytime you post and someone tells you how wonderful you are.

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR I think there is another angle here when it comes to a solid learning curve, and one that many on this board can relate to and have benefited from. And that is a life time of keeping fish of all kinds. And although not everything in the aquarium hobby translates to the koi keeping hobby, much of it does bring one to a fundamental understanding of what fish need to do well. Many of you might take this for granted, but if you watch those who have little or no experience with tropical fish you can see that they are at a severe disadvantage when trying to grasp the importance of pond design and the needs of creatures that live in their own waste within a closed system. I sometimes think that the years spent in youth with guppies, mollies, angel fish and then Africans, marines, reefs etc was all a tutelage for the keeping koi well. Each level of those other hobbies prepared me for keeping the king of all hobby fishes. If you were lucky enough to come to the hobby via this route than all you need to do is focus on the beginning of koi, it's roots and it's traditions and the early ephanies. if you get this far, you have the ground work for really getting deep into koi. I of course, recommend ZNA as an environment were you can reach the next level without distraction from goldfish, longfins etc. But that's me and some of you may not be that interested in koi as unique forms and favor the generalist gardener position, with koi being another outlet within American water gardening. But I digress---- - JR

I was mulling over something similar while out in the yard yesterday. even if it wasn't fish...if it was dogs, or birds, or even Daylillies a person has learned most of what they need to be able to keep koi before they see their first koi..it is the few specific rules and oddities of keeping fish and even more minute, koi that must be acquired to succeed in keeping koi.
THAT minutiae is best learned here

BTW "ephanies", that was a toughy..did you mean epiphanies?or are "ephan"ies truisms from the Epher?

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Eugeneg The internet is still a baby and it's wild to think about the future knowledge it will offer. In fact if someone wanted to it will be possible to put ALL the information ever written about koi on a little chip. Maybe even for FREE .

That is perfectly true one could methodically find all the information may be more than all the books and magazines combined . The problem arises in source onthe internet which is quite often inaccurate . Let us just compare a book even a little outdated ; Koi Kichi #1 for an example . How would someone with little knowledge compose an index of inforamation that he might need or refer to ? Then comes the cost of printing out and filing some of that information for easy access . Most photos are of inssuficient size to even print out .
That is why in life some people can spend countless Hr on a computer each day be very knowledgeble yet achive little in their lives .
When some of you young people get over 70 years of age you will realize that time is not repleneshable . So rather than spend countless Hrs on the computer or phonening mentours and useing their valuble time it would be wise to first buy a good book such as Koi Kichi study it thourally and only then further increase your knowledge by the internet ,clubs ,shows etc. This way you can study and learn in a more efficient manner .
Useing methods like I have stated in ones life one can achive a lot more in a liftime .
Regards
Eugene[/quote]

Eugeneg,
you stated:
Let us just compare a book even a little outdated ; Koi Kichi #1 for an example .

So you take the pentultimate koi Book ever writtten and pass it off as " a little out-dated"... Oh you don't use logic well...One Book, THE book of koi and Koi ponds to represent all the books that have been published on koi....
IF you are going to use Koikichi as your example of "koi Books" then let's also continue the charade and then refer to the internet as "Only what Waddington posts" on the net. THAT would be FAIR.
Better still go on NI and ask about something... if the answer doesn't make sense ask them to explain it ... see how many DIFFERENT perspectives you get to your query. NOT just the one from One book, and if anyone posts BS the others will call them on it. Just as we do here...right now to you.
There are alot of crap books out there that normal people buy, and read, and believe about koi. Books written by water-gardeners about koi, books written by landscapers about koi. Books full of errors and BS. Books that will actually harm your koi if you do what they say..and noone pops out of the pages of those books to tell you that what you have read is not what works.
But even the best book (KoiKichi I) out there is OUTDATED. You can go on the internet and on a good day talk to the people that Wrote chapters for KoiKichi II...
Which would be the best way to learn, which way could you learn the most, the most detailed...by reading a book or having lessons provided by the author(ity) along with the opportunity to Q&A anytime.

And to address the indexing of the information ...it is called a "SEARCH" Engine...or use the search box on the reputable sites...like right here...and it will find the relevant posts for you.


Books are dying...don't worry they are only ground-up trees...we are not destroying the information, just the way to store and retrieve it.
The Whole "book making" process limited how fast the evolution of the information about koi could occur...several years before the info in a book could reach the critical mass and then be incorporated so that the next revolution could occur.
With the internet the info becomes avaialble outside the confines of publishing houses.
Which are not limited to....
Identfying a market for a book [ time delay
material resources [ information constaint and time delays
Financial limitations [time and information limitations
Author bias [ information limitation
Author Skill [ disinformation

Also the information within a book is financially constrained... if it is not marketable then the book (and the information ..real or fake) is not published, or is published in a limited number.
The information here is not limited by finances. here information is given, not bought and sold.

Books are rubbish.

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee Books are rubbish.

Over the top as usual, Luke.

Just as a well-rounded college education includes books, lectures, labs, professors & graduate students & other students, alike, roundtable discussions, audio/visual presentations, field trips and research studies, a well rounded koi education includes books, magazines, wet labs, internet forums, dealers, clubs, mentors, breeders, shows and koi organizations.

Not all students learn, and not all modalities teach, in the same manner; in diversity lies both strength and balance.

Show me someone who hasn't availed themselves of and benefitted from all the various learning modalities available and I'll show you a person who doesn't have a well-rounded education -- koi or otherwise. And that includes books.

[Bob Winkler]

Thnks JR for bringing a different perspective into this... I think experience is and has been the best teacher....whether one's own, or another's. Books give persperctive to the experience.... and a way to trace history of the experience's of the author(s). So a direct line, ala the internet, as Luke says can be very good, but books and or other "written" materials (magazines, etc) can flesh out or give the back ground to what the "direct" information gives us. I think education of any type is similar. When talking to patients, I can explain stuff simply (to me) til I am blue in the face, but if I give them a little knowledge pertinent to their situation, then give some well done reading materials (can be a simple info sheet)they can read and mull over in their mind, then talk again at a future date, our conversation is on a higher level. I think learning about koi is exactly like that. How many times have the simple questions been asked and answered over and over?

[kingkong]

I still haven't learned anything yet. My koi all suck. So you can take all the books, mags, hours of threads and throw them in a box . The only time I got close to the promised land was visiting a breader in the states. At this point the only light in the tunnel would have to be a visit to Japan and work there for as long as it takes to figure this thing out..... from the horse's mouth sort of speak. No more second hand info and second hand fish.