Where have you gained most of your Koi Knowledge?

[luke frisbee]

Linear?
I wish.
Learning within this hobby is more like a 3-d matrix...except when you learn something they make you go backk an delete other "learned" things.. Lymnozyme

[Sangreaal]

After all the reading and listening and researching, I learn the most from the fish themselves. They're the ones that tell the truth that either proves or disproves what one has "learned" through all other methods.....

[Vogata]

I live in such a place that I it hadn’t been for the net, magazines and books I would still been looking down at a lawn. This is now long past, but I still find myself deep into one or more of my oldest books whenever the net sense is overwhelming me.

In short if it hadn’t been for the net most other Nishikigoi sources would have been hidden for me (us far from “the world centre”). Still there are way too many supermen’s and solutions out there to explain the ordinary problems that still are around. I find that the good old basic, way out besides the Nishikigoi topic, books gives a healthy wakeup call each time I think I’m finding gold at sand prices.
The net’s biggest downside is that anybody can for awhile (some times way to long) be what ever they please. It’s really a long walk to differentiate the sources and nicknames out there.

As mention her earlier I must confess that when meeting a person face to face many aspects falls into place the same with Nishikigoi. Only sorrow for us is that we need more than 16 hours to get to our nearest mentor.

[dick benbow]

Petter, I think it's good you remind many of us that we are fortunate to live where we do to have access to other koi kichies.....Marie, I think you comment about observation is certainly valid. We can compare notes with many but our koi confirm what works for them

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow Petter, I think it's good you remind many of us that we are fortunate to live where we do to have access to other koi kichies.....Marie, I think you comment about observation is certainly valid. We can compare notes with many but our koi confirm what works for them

Koi are the toughest teachers.

[schildkoi]

I've been "digesting" this thread and formulating some ideas. Although I do not "srgue" the point that the internet "can" be a valuable source of information, may times this information can simply be "wrong." This is not to say that information coming from a book, magazine, or from a one on one interaction could not also be wrong.

There are many different stages in the learning curve within the hobby and at each stage I think different information sources wiegh in differently. I think many may have answered this threads question based on where they may be today and what sources apply to their learning today. But, in the past, where did the foundation of information come from? What stirred their interest and where did they seek out more informatrion from? How did they judge the accuracy of such information once obtained?

While the internet can give what I will call "microbursts" of information, typically threads and responses are simply the "Reader's Digest" versions. One must also ask where did the "teachers" learn from? While many may have learned through the internet, did those teaching them do so? Odds are "no" and thus those who may be learning from the internet are in fact learning "defacto" from other sources.

Although in my opinion, there is absolutely nothing better than learning first hand through personal interactions (one on one being the best), one must still have the ability to understand what is being communicated. The student needs a solid foundation to build from. A foundation which stimulates further questions and the desire for more advanced learning.

If we look at the modern learning model, we find a multi stepped approach. Lectures, Reading, and research (including hands on lab work). Study groups can help to reinforce the learning process as well. While modern technology allows for online lectures, this has not yet progressed into the koi hobby (other than perhaps through IKONA). The bread and butter in providing the basic knowledge and a source of continuing research is still the periodical (books and magazines). While the internet may, in the future, change the "style of these, their digital versions will continue. Perhaps human behavior will also change, but ask your self if you prefer to read a periodical online or do you print it out to read?

Regardless of the "format" one chooses to learn from, there are two factors that come into play, The person's ability to learn and the credibility of the information source.

I can't imagine going to a surgeon for a proceedure nd inding out he never read a book or other periodical, let alomne never having any hands on experience prior to practicing medicine but simply learned through the internet.....can you?

Steve

[Fishbreeder]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi (part of post dleted to save space) Regardless of the "format" one chooses to learn from, there are two factors that come into play, The person's ability to learn and the credibility of the information source. I can't imagine going to a surgeon for a proceedure nd inding out he never read a book or other periodical, let alomne never having any hands on experience prior to practicing medicine but simply learned through the internet.....can you? Steve

You know, Steve,

I had to do that once, shop for a surgeon, a brain surgeon. You'd be surprised how many of them told me "I've seen the procedure done, I can do it also." Well, that weren;t good enough for me. Fine if'n I;d broke my leg. But diggin' around in my head, I needed more than "Saw it once on tv." Found one, too. Takes me six months to buy a car....

Koi is like that.

You havta go and do it. You havta go and see it done with your own eyes, then do it yourself with your instructor watching. Whatever "it" is you must do this.

I learned the most from two ways. From my mentors of koi breeding (Suda, Mano, Sakai, etc.) hands on while they watched and commented. The word that applies to them as instructors is "kibiishi" look it up.

From the son of a breeder, "My father gets a blue line on his forehead every day."
"Pop a blue vein," has a different meaning in Japanese.

The other way has been by trial and error.

Yes and some from print. Mostly trade journals, but also hobby mags and books.

Best book for wanna be koi breeders never even once has the word "koi" in it. "A Hatchery Manual for Common, Chinese, and Major Indian Carps." Paperback, ICLARM.

Best method for wannabee koi breeders to learn, go and spend time on a koi breeding farm.

Worst way, try reading a jargon filled book like "Koi Breeding" by Rothbard.

Brett

[l113892]

You could spend many years looking at average koi and learn to rank those koi but think of the instantaneous insight you get when you first see a true quality fish. Now take the individual that has seen many quality fish and show them a "true" tategoi. The learning process can be excelerated but to Steve's point, you must find a student that is receptive and has some ability to absorb the material.

[MikeM]

There are layers of knowledge involved in the koi hobby. The foundation layers are necessary for the higher layers to be laid down. The benefit to be gained from a conversation with Masao Kato by a newbie is nothing compared to what would be learned by .... say, JR.

[BTW, I wish Kato-san was fluent in English and would spend a few days (weeks, months??) simply sharing his observations on the subject of koi. I'm sure it would provide the substance for years of study.]

[PapaBear]

I think Brett may be related to Will Rogers... At least he sounds that way sometimes

Reading along with all the answers draws me closer to a word lost on many these days.
"Discernment".
No matter where the information came from, the ability to sift it, glean what it valuable and put it into practice seems to be lacking amongst too many people. That is the chief downfall of the web, as too many gullible newbies seem ready and willing to accept every tidbit of pond-side urban legend as "fact". How else do you explain the success of ADI et-al...

My experience yesterday made for a good case in point.
With the recent discussion of bottled bugs I decided to stop by a local pond shop to see what they had on the shelf. They had most of the popular brands and when the salesman asked me if I needed help I inquired about Koizyme, and explained its purpose. He then proceeded to explain to me that "Aeromonas and Pseudomonas are BENEFICIAL bacteria that you want in your pond"...
I gave up trying to explain the difference between Aeromonas and Nitrobacters after a few minutes. He already "knows" too much to learn. The saddest part is that this is the largest pond builder in the state and this guy is one of their senior salesmen...