Where have you gained most of your Koi Knowledge?

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar Well, let's see how bad I get bashed for this post.

Not by me, Mike. Thanks for putting it out there.

[koiczar]

Steve

As I said previously, don't put me in the middle of your disagreement. I'm only pointing out that it's very hard to decipher the written word at times and sift through some of the "older" info that was published long ago and is no longer as valid as it once may have been.

The dispute over size differentiation appears on all fronts to be a male driven issue - LOL

I haven't seen anything definitive about what size "fry" change to become "koi"! But that is something we may never get an agreement on other than from the breeders. Yes, I know, Brett is a breeder. I'm not disputing his statement or Luke's. Luke's was more of an informational post of what he observed. Maybe his "maleness" got in the way of the size of these "fry" and maybe it didn't. That's really not the point. The point he was trying to make was based on a factual event that he observed, given a PARTICULAR SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES - nothing more. Maybe we can learn something from it?!?!

Don,

I know Luke was trying to pull your (and other's) chain to get a reaction. You bit, and gave him EXACTLY what he wanted. But,(as JR says), I digress. That type of post, and parts of Luke's, are just not necessary and is a waste of time. As I said, reading through the cowsh#$ can be a hastle sometimes, but maybe there's some truth in there we can glean and learn from too!

Eugene

I'm retired. I have plenty of time on my hands - until the good Lord decides I don't. Most regular posters here seem to have lots of time on their hands - LOL

Mike

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar I know Luke was trying to pull your (and other's) chain to get a reaction. You bit, and gave him EXACTLY what he wanted. But,(as JR says), I digress. That type of post, and parts of Luke's, are just not necessary and is a waste of time. As I said, reading through the cowsh#$ can be a hastle sometimes, but maybe there's some truth in there we can glean and learn from too!

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how to deal with folks like Luke, Stephen Height, Hot Air Hawley and Jungle George -- folks who go out of their way to insult the hobby and other hobbyists.

It's my opinion that they need to be confronted and their posts corrected. To ignore them, to leave their tripe and vitriol unchallenged, invites nothing but trouble for those who are not able to weigh the credibility of the source, whether it's now or they come upon it months or years downstream.

In any case, if what Luke wanted was another spanking, there's more where that came from.

And from a guy who says of JR and Steve that "they haven't seeked the truth," what else can you expect except (as you said) "real cowsh#$."

[Lam Nguyen]

As a newbie in this hobby, I am going to stick my neck out and say this, and that is the type of debate that we have had in this post is very unproductive. It is the kind of post that is going to scare newbies away from this forum. Debating is a good thing, but when it comes to degrading the hobby and others, then I think that it's uncalled for.

This is the first forum that I joined and have always considered it my home. It is the very first forum that I log onto when I turn on my computer and is usually the first forum that I post in. As stated many times by others and myself, I enjoy this forum because it is "for the serious hobbyist", and I, being a newbie, have lots to learn from the serious hobbyists. But when I see posts like this, it makes me want to lurk in other forums to see what they have to offer. While other forums may not go into depth in subject matters like this forum, at least they are courteous, kind, and respective of others.

It makes me sad to see this type of behavior among the hobby's elites, elites who are supposed to advance the hobby by sharing knowledge among themselves and passing their knowledge down to newbies. Elites are supposed to be encouraging, patient, and receptive of others regardless of their knowledge level. How are you going to change a hobbyist from a watergardener to a true koi hobbyist when all you do is intimidate and degrade them? Anyways, just my thoughts in this subject matter. Like it's going to matter, but at least it makes me feel better spilling it out.

[RogerL]

Pond construction; filtration etc..... Internet, a few books and visiting and observing a lot of ponds

Koi health and husbandry..... A reasonably wide range of experienced hobbyists and the KHA program. Two books as useful reference.

Koi quality...... A very small group of hobbyists, judges etc. while actually observing and discussing high quality fish. Books such as Kokugyo I and II helped with the basics but there's no substitution for the real thing!

[d_mer]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Where have you gained most of your Koi Knowledge? I have studied koi from the books, magazines and my dealers...What about the rest of you?

Books, Internet, one friend of mine, and my dealer in Fallbrook.

[Eugeneg]

It makes me sad to see this type of behavior among the hobby's elites, elites who are supposed to advance the hobby by sharing knowledge among themselves and passing their knowledge down to newbies. Elites are supposed to be encouraging, patient, and receptive of others regardless of their knowledge level. How are you going to change a hobbyist from a watergardener to a true koi hobbyist when all you do is intimidate and degrade them? Anyways, just my thoughts in this subject matter. Like it's going to matter, but at least it makes me feel better spilling it out.[/quote]

You are perfectly right for bringing this to their attention as this sort of behaviour spoils a fine board . Just think of it as empty vessels make the most noise and after a hundred posts they get tired of it . LOL
Regards
Eugene

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi Yep Mike, I did miss that, My apoligies to Luke for that. But, now let's consider something. A "koi" is not a "fry" at 2 inches, it is a koi. You could define the difference in a number of ways but in any manner I can think of, at 2 inches they are no longer fry. Koi will in fact eat fry. They will not eat (knowingly) eat other koi. Now you and or others can buy into Luke's logic but I think I will stick with Brett on this one. For the record, I have seen large koi suck in smaller koi when attempting to eat food (pellets). Funny how they spit the smaller koi back out. Perhaps what Luke is says that he sees with a 2" KOI is the mistaken ingestion of a smaller Koi? Do you perhaps think that that is a possibility and Brett may be correct? Mike, as for your statement of: Its kind of hard for people to "learn how to decipher it" if no one challenges the "cowsh#$". I guess the real question is who is spewing the "cowsh#$", Brett, a respected proffesional with a degree and years of experience in the field or Luke? Hmmmmm, tough call to make there. On the other hand, Luke may have learned how to measure koi from someone in N. Florida and the real size then would have been about 3/4" and a fry...easily taken as food by a koi and Brett still would be correct. Steve

Steve,

you wrote (and once again I did not modify your lack of intelligence):
"But, now let's consider something. A "koi" is not a "fry" at 2 inches, it is a koi. You could define the difference in a number of ways but in any manner I can think of, at 2 inches they are no longer fry. Koi will in fact eat fry. They will not eat (knowingly) eat other koi. "

Your limited understanding of the language and how you believe you know it all but question me is a a great example of why you are not the person you pretend to be.
How 'bout you breaking out the dictionary...no I'll do it for you because you are too lazy to try and understand what you do not already think you know. h
Here are the definitions for the word fry taken from merriam-webster's Dictionary..
Main Entry: 1 a: recently hatched or juvenile fishes b: the young of other animals
2: very small adult fishes
3: members of a group or class

There ya go... your extremely narrow concept of the word "fry" shows you to understand just alittle, and pretend to know alot. And you beat people up from your position. As the editor of KoiUSA and as an Esteemed AKCA Judge. A terrible Quality you and others have developed.
So stop pretending, and just try and learn like the rest of us... you can teach and you can learn...and you can learn from sources that do not have a "san" after their name. You just got taken to school by lil ol dumbass lukie.
at least I hope you did...and I hope you learned more than the definition of "fry".

[luke frisbee]

BTW I do very much appreciate the few that have commented that behavior shown by the "koi elite"ists.

and Don,
keep licking those boots, boy...and learn the definiton for fry from Steve now that he has been shown he hasn't got a clue as to what I posted because he thinks he knows it all, and you are there to tell him he does.....you' add nothing to the threads but seem to believe your opinon on who is correct is the one that needs to be posted. You add no facts, nor info to a thread, you just cheer the "Leaders" of the hobby on and support them blindly, for they tell you how to think...not that you can.

[JasPR]

Luke, how DO you manage to stay upright with that great big chip on your shoulder?