Did Mike M cave in yet and get a Sanke?

[gcuss]

Originally Posted by carrie1964

Grant,
All the info is on the website. There ia a small winter keeping fee and they are indoors.

Thank you Carrie. Interesting options.... Grow em, maintain em, or bring 'em home and freeze them....

Grant

[dick benbow]

I'd be up for a lil sanke review...

[Ethan25]

Originally Posted by dick benbow

I'd be up for a lil sanke review...

I've heard that a really good sanke is hard to find because all three colors have to be solid and in good pattern, as well as be mature at the same time. One of my sanke had great hi, but once the sumi started to come up, the hi began to break down.

Is that right?

[dick benbow]

With Sanke, what i think is most difficult to find is a balanced pattern. There is always the personal taste involved with some leaning toward big heavy patches of sumi and some who prefer a more refined look with smaller sumi and less of them.

With sanke sumi, there is some kinds that appear as speckled and then come together to make a solid patch and some that start as a small dot and continue to expand.

I don't believe there is a correlation that when a beni looks good and then the sumi starts to appear that it causes anything to happen with the beni. I would say there was a problem with the beni to start with and at the time the sumi developed ( second or third year) the beni fell apart. Things like saw tooth beni, uneven strength/density thru out the beni could signal a demise but if you didn't know what to look for it may have seemed that when the black appeared the red fell apart.

With matsunosuke based sanke, I have seem sumi come up and go down over several years.
These types of koi with this sumi seem to develop into something special quality wise, but I have also seen perfect shoulder sumi come and go and really frustrate the owner when they realize it's not coming back. I bought a tosai once that took first in a prestigeous japanese show who's should sumi went down as nisei but never came back up again the following year.


From a breeders perspective breeding sanke is very difficult.

[MikeM]

Grant hasn't picked a 'victim' for us yet, but good start, Dick.

One of the things we always read about selecting tosai Sanke is to look for a good Kohaku pattern first. When all things are otherwise equal, that's great advice. But, I think it diverts attention from the most important factors and makes folks place too much emphasis on pattern. And, when the Sumi consolidates it can provide balance.

[MikeM]

In answer to your question, Grant: Yes. I caved.

[gcuss]

Originally Posted by MikeM

In answer to your question, Grant: Yes. I caved.

Congrats. I can't believe the sumi on the fish already. Makes it exciting for the future. And I've also read a few times that you love a pretty face. Got one! I'd really like to hear what made this fish "the one".

Any chance you'd tip your hand and show the showa you selected as well?? And possibly why?

Thanks for sharing.

Grant

[MikeM]

Grant, the reason for this one is the body. I would really like to see it in person, but that's why I get the insurance. From the head back, it gives me the impression of a big, long fish. The head is too 'baby cute'. I am guessing the body will expand and bring the head along. The pigment looks like it is either progressing more quickly than others posted (not so great IMO if so... male??) or is going to be very thick. I'm hoping for thickness. The large sumi blocks may not remain as they are. I believe the one on the shoulder will. Many will think it is too large. JR recently discussed a prize-winning Sanke in a Japanese show, commenting that he just could not get himself to not focus on a too large block of sumi 'marring' the refined appearance... too Showa-like for a Sanke? I'll hope there are a couple of more large blocks of sumi to give balance. I'll also hope the Sumi does not overwhelm the multiple white inserts. If 'she' gets as big as I am hoping, the deep wrap of the Beni will carry well and the inserts of white will make a pretty picture. ....Besides, I do not have a koi with kuchibeni. Lots of 'maybes', but it is something of a lottery. It's fun to have a ticket.

[l113892]

Mike and Dick- you guys are true fans. If I ever became a breeder, what do they call that when a politician hires a group to see if they have a viable chance in an election, well I would need two people as well respected as the two of you before I would entertain becoming a breeder. Your enthusiasm for tosai borders on insanity. I mean I love the discussion and all, but this is a crap shoot and very few tosai turn out. The fact that one can buy insurance only means that instead of getting the fish you selected, you are relegated to select from a short list of remaining koi to replace the one you wanted initially. I think there would be less risk in buying nisai. We have these grow out contests all the time. Maybe we should have a $1000 contest. You take $1000 and but what you want- two $555 tosai if you want. I'll buy the $1000 nisai and in two years we'll go head to head in a show. What do you think?

[MikeM]

LOL... I don't know how we work the logistics for that grow-out, but I'm game. Sounds like fun ... although a faster finishing 4-year old would have the advantage over 3-year olds that take 6 years to come together? ...still sounds like fun.

I do get excited about the possibilities of these tosai. Admission: I enjoy watching tosai progress, so I usually have one or two at home (inexpensive Japanese imports mostly)although I know I'll be searching out a new home for them in a year. I do not encourage folks who are serious about koi to do likewise. It's fun and educational, but a temporary thing. I think these 555 tosai are a different thing. I've never seen tosai of their quality imported from Japan. If I didn't think they truly have serious potential, I'd not be interested. I've seen enough impressive nisai come out of the NJ mud to be convinced. I don't get the fun of seeing them progress daily or weekly. I'll not see them in person until the October harvest. This is entirely different than playing with some tosai over the summer.

There is very much a gambling aspect, but with less risk in my mind than betting on last week's Derby. My gamble is that while NKF has my money, I'll end up with (A)a credit toward a koi I want because my tosai selection crapped out; (B) a nisai I like too much to turn back in, albeit not any more valuable in my eyes than what I paid; (C) a nisai I think is more desirable than what I paid; or (D) a credit toward a koi that so knocks me over that I turn in a nisai I like because I do not have the room/wallet for both. For some folks outcome (A) is unacceptable. If so, they should stay within the boundaries of what gives them pleasure. I do not worry about the risk of failure resulting in having to pick a koi I did not initially choose. I'm not going to choose one I do not really want. There are more than a few at the farm that I'd love to have. I've described it elsewhere as my 'koi savings'. Other than a heron attack or some such, I do not think there is much risk the nisai harvested in October will be worth less than the price today... some risk is present, of course.

My partners hear me say it whenever a business opportunity decision has to be made, and I truly believe: We are not measured by our failures. We are measured by our successes. I want result (C). ...Actually, I want a koi I so like that I'll never pass her on. Too much to hope for? Well, what's the fun in succeeding at aiming low?

Warning, Michael. Come to the October harvest and you'll get hooked. It is an addiction.