SuperVerm Dangerous Med??????

[Louie]

Hi An,
About 3-4years ago I had a few e-mails saying their fish were acting strange and no slim coat. As I found later they all had used Supaverm and it had burned the epidermis because the slime coat was damaged.. A combination of Stress Coat which contains Aloe Vera and Mela fix works well. keep the feeding to the min this will help your water quality.
Prazi is the best and it mixes well with vodka I kid you not !!!!
Louie

[An Ly]

thanks Louie,
all the fish were flashing like crazy when i first notice it, now the flashing is less but still flashes most likely irritation from the superverm on a slimless coat, wow!! maybe its just my luck.

fish are still not there self, not playful and not active, very sluggish, especially the two. will continue to monitor their progress, hopefully they recover

An

[jnorth]

Give me the link as well

[Flounder]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Give me the link as well

Of course Mr. North, you're the super mod.

Am I right in saying I should not have posted the link?


Ryan

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flounder Of course Mr. North, you're the super mod. Am I right in saying I should not have posted the link? Ryan

Yes thank you for not posting it....and thank you as well for pm'ing the people that have asked for it .

[RookieKoiGuy]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Yes thank you for not posting it....and thank you as well for pm'ing the people that have asked for it .

Yes- thank you very much for the pm flounder

[schildkoi]

Without exception, every instance of "issues with Superverm has had contributing factors. I have had about as much experience with Superverm as anyone in the US. In fact, I helped to package what I believe were the first two shipments into the US while visiting Peter and Tim Waddington back in 2000. A portion of one of these shipments is what Dr. J used in his "flawed" studies in which he recommended a second dosage because he ran the first treatment while using a carbon filter.

As mentioned by JR, chemical treatments are designed to kill the parasites while not harming the koi. Proper dosages (concentration used and water treated are critical. If either is off (let alone both) disaster can occur. In addition to this, mixing treatments (shotgunning) can also have disasterous effects.

If o e reads the original dosing protocols they will find that the actual dosage was 1 ml per 108 US Gallons and after 3 days (in other words on day 4) all flukes would be dead. No water changes for 7-10 days. One treatment only.

Also as mentioned, Supervern is a suspension meaning that it has to be well mixed prior to use or even segragating into smaller containers (another area for problems to manifest).

Somewhere along the way, someone in the US with an affection to salt added the .3% salinity into the equation that was NOT part of the original dosing protocols. Now keep in mind, salt strips the slime coat off of a koi and thus exposes the skin directly to the superverm...and people wonder why there might be an issue?

I have yet to experience any issues with Superverm....but then again, I use the original dosing protocols, correct concentration and know the water volume being treated.

As for Prazi being safe...or safer? I know of more than one knowledgeable hobbyist who has had issues with this product as well. I would suggest that any chemical treatment has a risk, especially when used outside of the correct trewatment protocols.

Steve

[tangigi]

Based on the 1 ml per 108 gallon dosage of supaverm, would that come out to approx 2.45 ml per ton? not sure of the conversion.

Thanks

Lar

[schildkoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by tangigi Based on the 1 ml per 108 gallon dosage of supaverm, would that come out to approx 2.45 ml per ton? not sure of the conversion. Thanks Lar

Yes. 264 US gallons per ton. 264/108 = 2.44

Steve

[Auntiesue]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi As for Prazi being safe...or safer? I know of more than one knowledgeable hobbyist who has had issues with this product as well. I would suggest that any chemical treatment has a risk, especially when used outside of the correct trewatment protocols. Steve

I happen to be one of those hobbiest that recently had an issue with an "off label" Prazi product. I measure all meds using proper tools (grams scales, syringes, etc) Now I can't say for sure this was the cause, but the last thing I did before I lost 1/2 of my collection was a prazi treatment. Within 48 hours my fish were lying over piled on top of one another. All of my large show fish are now gone. The gills appeared in good shape. The bodies were all red, the eyes clouded over and popped. This tells me that something toxic went internal and whacked organs so much that the fish could not recover. The smaller fish are recovering and doing ok today.

I'm still having trouble getting the water right in my big indoor holding tank. All recoverin fish are now in my Q-tank. Incoming water is the same for both tanks. Basic filtration is the same as well, just smaller on the Q-tank.

Once the meds were introduced to the larger tank, the water started to go cloudy and foaming on the surface within 48 hours. Prior to this the fish had never looked better.

Sue