It all begins...

[gspotmc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen Ah, Michael, hence another dilemma that I am trying to deal with: while this is the route to go to have a good chance at obtaining a GC contender, I am still pondering whether this is the route I want to take. No disrespect to those who are doing this, and I don't know how feasible this is, but I want to be able to raise a show contender from when it was a tosai or nisai. I want to be able to control the water parameters, diet, environment, ect. so that I can bring this koi up from when it was small to Earn's 30" Marudo kohaku. Anyways, just a thought.

LAM,
I THINK ERNS JUST GOT THIS KOHAKU. I REMEMBER HIM POSTING PICTURES OF THIS KOI. I BOUGHT A SHIRO LAST YEAR AT 28 INCHES AND AFTER A YEAR SHE IS 30 1/2 INCHES.
ERNS,
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHEN YOU ACQUIRED HERE? THANKS


MICHAEL

[gcuss]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen Ah, Michael, hence another dilemma that I am trying to deal with: while this is the route to go to have a good chance at obtaining a GC contender, I am still pondering whether this is the route I want to take. No disrespect to those who are doing this, and I don't know how feasible this is, but I want to be able to raise a show contender from when it was a tosai or nisai. I want to be able to control the water parameters, diet, environment, ect. so that I can bring this koi up from when it was small to Earn's 30" Marudo kohaku. Anyways, just a thought.

Lam: I share your approach. I could go out and buy a '62 Corvette that's been completely frame off restored by the best in the business. I could also buy a project from someone who got started, but never finished. Or I could find (maybe) that needle in a haystack car that's been sitting for years and do the whole thing myself. In all three cases, I may win Best In Show, but with the last scenario, I know I would take immeasurable more pleasure from the victory.

I mean no offense to anyone by this statement. And maybe in a number of years after filling up all my friend's ponds with "didn't make its" I'll go out and get that half started fish. However, with wide eyes, and a naive heart I think I'll stick to my program until such times as I reach the next step in this journey.

Erns: Wonderful koi. I don't have the eye, or the knowledge to say anything more, but she's beautiful. And as others have said, remarkable color considering the stress she was under for the photo shoot.

Enjoy.

Grant

[Lam Nguyen]

Grant, I agree with your comments. I bet that James Reilly, Erns, Michael, and a few others are shaking their head while thinking to themselves, "rookie". Perhaps we are just going through a learning process and I can foresee myself one day taking Michael's approach. But right now, I am just enjoying the ride and wasting lots of time and dinero getting there!

[gspotmc]

Lam & Grant,
I'm Glad That You Guys Are Learning. Take It Slow. I'm Not Nodding My Head When I Read That Word Rookie. Actually It Brings Back Memory GooD And Bad. I Had The Same Goal When I Was Starting Out In The Hobby. Why Buy A Finisfed Product When You Can Grow Them Out And Take Pride. I Did That In One Show Actually. I Took Gc, Rgc, Best In Size 6 And Best In Size 5. Plus A Couple Of First Place Finish. But Nothing Is As Sweet As Winning When You Have The Koi Under Your Care For At Least A Year. I Used To Have 60 To 80 Kois At One Time Hoping To Grow Out A Gc. That Was Really A Dream. That's Just My Opinion. Buy An Expensive 2 Yr. Old Instead Of Buying 6 Fish And Grow It Out.
Michael

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen Erns, I think that she is a very impressive koi that will be competitive at any koi show. I have refrained from giving my opinions earlier because koi of this caliber should deserve comments from the "pros" in this hobby. When you first posted this thread, the only thing that went through my head was how I could go about obtaining a koi like her from when she was a youngster (tosai or nisai) and growing her up to 30" by the time she is 6 years old and with such impeccable conformation and w/o any husbantry defaults. Like what others said, I think that her shiroji will improve given a cooler environment. Please keep us posted on how she does at koi shows.

I think the "pros" would like to hear from the "newbies"....This way we can see what those know or can add to their database.

1. Pattern is what lures the eye to the fish: Pattern by Japanese standard is common or so-so.
2. The quality of the beni is what makes the pattern "pop". Beni looks to have depth and to be uniform throughout the fish.
3. Shiroji looks okay but we know the fish is stressed.
4. Conformation looks to be weak, but a strong sign that tells me it will come back is the thickness of the tail joint.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by gspotmc Lam & Grant, I'm Glad That You Guys Are Learning. Take It Slow. I'm Not Nodding My Head When I Read That Word Rookie. Actually It Brings Back Memory GooD And Bad. I Had The Same Goal When I Was Starting Out In The Hobby. Why Buy A Finisfed Product When You Can Grow Them Out And Take Pride. I Did That In One Show Actually. I Took Gc, Rgc, Best In Size 6 And Best In Size 5. Plus A Couple Of First Place Finish. But Nothing Is As Sweet As Winning When You Have The Koi Under Your Care For At Least A Year. I Used To Have 60 To 80 Kois At One Time Hoping To Grow Out A Gc. That Was Really A Dream. That's Just My Opinion. Buy An Expensive 2 Yr. Old Instead Of Buying 6 Fish And Grow It Out. Michael

I am still a "Rookie" cause if I was called a "Professional" I wouldn't be allowed to show.

But like Duke Nguyen once said, save your money for one good fish a year instead of many you get stuck with later.

[Lam Nguyen]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I am still a "Rookie" cause if I was called a "Professional" I wouldn't be allowed to show. But like Duke Nguyen once said, save your money for one good fish a year instead of many you get stuck with later.

Hi Tonio, I agree with you in buying one good quality koi instead of many so-so koi. However, there's also the fear factor that's involved with investing in one nice nisai. There's the fear that one's husbantry is not at the level that would be able to give this nice nisai a chance to blossom. There's also the fear that if one was to invest everything in one nest egg, then when this nest egg goes south, then there goes your investment/hobby. I guess there's just a learning curve that's involved and some hobbyists do get to the one-good-koi-vs-many-so-so-koi stage sooner than others. If I had a stable pond like Duke's then I wouldn't hesitate to invest in a nice nisai/sansai once in a while.

[gcuss]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I think the "pros" would like to hear from the "newbies"....This way we can see what those know or can add to their database. 1. Pattern is what lures the eye to the fish: Pattern by Japanese standard is common or so-so. 2. The quality of the beni is what makes the pattern "pop". Beni looks to have depth and to be uniform throughout the fish. 3. Shiroji looks okay but we know the fish is stressed. 4. Conformation looks to be weak, but a strong sign that tells me it will come back is the thickness of the tail joint.

Ok then. Here's a newbie's take and please don't throw stuff at me:

Pattern is boring, and to me, uneven. Heavy on the front, lean in the back and on the right. I would like more beni in the tail joint.

I think the red is too orange for my taste, however, I realize there was blood in the water and this may have changed the shade. Also, I realize the camera plays a big role in this.

The beni is really nice and soft in appearance. Looks like you could dip something in it. Nice even color from front to back. Super nice.

I think the pec fins are a little on the small side.

Nice thick tail joint, and agree with Tony... more to come on the body.

Shiroji, in all likely hood is superb. To still look this nice with a tint to the water... wow.

6 yrs old, and 30"... I think the size is fantastic, and I'm guessing that the fish just finished a growing spurt which would explain the leaner body, and the lighter hi color (mind you I don't see anything darker in the middle of the scale, but could again, be the photos).

All in all, way more fish than I have, and I'm going to assume that I don't have the knowledge to appreciate this koi near enough. I really hope I didn't offend Erns, just trying to continue my education. Anyway, before I have my "bito-member card" pulled, I'll shut up.

Grant

- give you any insight as to why I try not to say too much? Nothing worse than an opinionated rookie.

[Erns]

I bought her in the beginning of the year from a collector who was moving and selling off his whole collection. I was told that she was over 80cm but when I got her she was only 76cm. The first month or so she did not eat much at all. So I spoke to the guy that raised her to find out what her favorite treats were. I started feeding that and after that she started to eat like the leader of the pack! Now she has quite the presence in my pond...she is the main lady! Hard to believe but since I bought her she grew 2 cm. I started feeding saki hikari growth this year with an auto feeder...up to 12 times a day. 25 koi in my 35 000l system.

It's not my style to buy large almost finished koi, I enjoy the journey. Most of the koi I buy are nissai at the oldest. I've grown a Sakai nissai sanke fro 58cm to 65cm this year. I think she will be 70cm before she is 3. Therein lies the fun and the challenge for me. It's all about the journey.

There is a completely different challenge in buying a large high quality koi and then maintaining the quality or even improving on it...so i'm learning. Quite frankly it's nerve racking!

[gspotmc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Erns I bought her in the beginning of the year from a collector who was moving and selling off his whole collection. I was told that she was over 80cm but when I got her she was only 76cm. The first month or so she did not eat much at all. So I spoke to the guy that raised her to find out what her favorite treats were. I started feeding that and after that she started to eat like the leader of the pack! Now she has quite the presence in my pond...she is the main lady! Hard to believe but since I bought her she grew 2 cm. I started feeding saki hikari growth this year with an auto feeder...up to 12 times a day. 25 koi in my 35 000l system. It's not my style to buy large almost finished koi, I enjoy the journey. Most of the koi I buy are nissai at the oldest. I've grown a Sakai nissai sanke fro 58cm to 65cm this year. I think she will be 70cm before she is 3. Therein lies the fun and the challenge for me. It's all about the journey. There is a completely different challenge in buying a large high quality koi and then maintaining the quality or even improving on it...so i'm learning. Quite frankly it's nerve racking!

Erns,
The possibilities are endless especially with young and high end koi. but the rewards are great and fullfilling. The challenges will always be present. Good husbandry and low stocking rate is always a plus.