Your comments on tosai

[farne230]

Quote: Originally Posted by saratogatan bob, you should have bet on Momotaros auction instead of looking at either koi. For what these 2 will set you back, you are likely to get a very good momo. stan

Stan, I believe the Momotaro tosai are of better quality then the ones shown her. But I believe they are also at least three to four times more expensive then Kevin's shown in these photo's.
Bob

[Lam Nguyen]

Hi Bob, I, too, like the kohaku. I really like the pattern on the top showa, and it does look like a female. But I am afraid that the conformation might not be there. I am sure that Kevin will be able to give a better assessment on these koi since he's there in person and he's, well, he's Kevin Pham.

A couple of questions for you: are these guaranteed females by the breeder? Also, will you leave these koi in Japan or will you bring them back now?

[gspotmc]

Bob,
If you're having second thoughts ask for Kevin's opinion. Go with his instincts.
Michael

[aquitori]

Depending on price I would say 99.9% of those tosai would be male. The .1 percent you would say your very lucky if it ends up female and very very very lucky if you can grow it out to be something great.

[MikeM]

Of the 3 you referenced, I would prefer the Kohaku. These pics are not easy to 'read', so it's more a feeling based on what I can see.

But, I am drawn to the Showa in the bowl with the Kohaku. If the sex can be determined, I'd enjoy growing any of them thought to be likely female. I asked about the one at 11 o'clock because I have the sense that it just may be female. The other 3 remind me of a Torazo Showa tosai I got some years ago (bred from Dianichi blood stock), which turned out male... same big head, same head shape, same long body proportion. He was a grand fellow, but had to move on.

As tosai, Showa grab attention because it is so easy to imagine all the things the Sumi may do. The possibilities become exciting and the present reality is given less weight. But it is the pattern possibilities that pull the hobbyist's eyes to Showa. Kohaku tosai are so plain in comparison. It is more difficult to imagine the future, because the pattern is pretty clear cut and it is much more difficult to envision how quality will express itself. Even, thick Beni will attract the eye to a large Kohaku, while the messy Sumi of the Showa that never finishes loses its lure. So, if you are truly in doubt which way to go, ask yourself why the Showa attracts you and give a benefit of your doubt to a Kohaku. ...Just some thoughts from a Showa lover.

[Lam Nguyen]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Depending on price I would say 99.9% of those tosai would be male. The .1 percent you would say your very lucky if it ends up female and very very very lucky if you can grow it out to be something great.

Hi Tony, I do have to agree with you that most tosai that are in the selling tanks are males. The exceptions to this would be the high-end tosai auctions where these koi are guaranteed females and are kept in the breeder's mud ponds for another year or two. That's why I asked Bob if they were guaranteed females. Similar to the 555 event, I wouldn't mind paying extra just to guarantee that they are females. It sucks to have a good quality koi only to find that it's a male and have to find a home for it in a year or two.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen Hi Tony, I do have to agree with you that most tosai that are in the selling tanks are males. The exceptions to this would be the high-end tosai auctions where these koi are guaranteed females and are kept in the breeder's mud ponds for another year or two. That's why I asked Bob if they were guaranteed females. Similar to the 555 event, I wouldn't mind paying extra just to guarantee that they are females. It sucks to have a good quality koi only to find that it's a male and have to find a home for it in a year or two.

I have to admit I still buy tosai, but not the high priced ones that some dealers are asking for them. The good thing about the 555 event is that you can buy insurance if the fish ends up being male and you get the mudpond too. With that type of thing Nisei Koi Farm is offering atleast it gives the hobbyist a chance see the tosai raised in the ideal conditions.

Some of those Tosai Genki is selling comes at a high price of upto $500, but the fact is I would expect nothing more than a learning experience when I take a tosai home.

[PapaBear]

If these are all tosai my chief concern with the showa's would be the hi plates. Are they really big enough to carry off the balance you'll need to be competitive when they've more than doubled in size? My experience is far to limited to know.
The Kohaku on the other hand has the big fish pattern a tosai has a shot at growing in to. Tough call from these pics, so Kevin's professional opinion (and reputation) are going to be your best friend.

[saratogatan]

Like tonio. The max I will do for a tosai is $300, regardless of breeder, if it is swimming in the dealer's tank.

I learned this the hard way. I have committed the crime of paying $1500 for a jumbo tosai once. It turned out a she, but quality sucks after it turned nisai.

I heard the cheapest Momotaro fetched around $3000 in the last (not today's) auction. That make me an idiot.

stan

[Flounder]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Depending on price I would say 99.9% of those tosai would be male. The .1 percent you would say your very lucky if it ends up female and very very very lucky if you can grow it out to be something great.

Hey Tony, what would you say the price would be if it's a guaranteed female tosai? Yeah yeah yeah I know it depends on quality but from your experience if it's guaranteed it would fetch...?