Koi Dealer Etiquette

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Then, there is the "gripe factor". Some of us require more hand-holding and more advice. Some of us take forever to make a decision. Some of us have abrasive personalities. Some of us whine and complain. Breeders and dealers are people too (so I'm told). The smile on their face must hind a wench when certain difficult customers walk in the door. The price goes up for a customer with an elevated gripe factor. -s

This response is classic!!!

[mstrseed]

Don't forget the welching factor...................those who say they will buy a koi, then months later come up with an excuse not to.................and then buy from another dealer

[Fishbreeder]

Interesting comments from the "other side of the sale tank."

I see a particularly dificult customer I know is going to try and negotiate the price down hard, I start asking for 40% more than I expect to get.

Somebody comes in and knows everything and thinks they will cherry pick my fish and get them for cheap, I let 'em pay too much for the wrong fish and laugh all the way to the bank.

Folks ask me, "How do you know how to price these fish?" I tell 'em, "By the kind of car you drove up in."

Somebody comes in and asks for help in acquiring a koi, I'll shoot my own self in the foot trying to get them the right fish and in thier budget.

You ain't a gonna git no discount by telling me how ugly my fish are so I should charge less for them. I'll run your arse off to Wally World.

You wanna buy several nice koi, well, hell yes I'm going to offer a substantial discount on a group.

Bring your buddy by the farm that has a pond and never been here before, no doubt that is good for a few bucks off your next koi.

Come by regular like, even if you don't buy something every time, probably gets you that "preferred customer" status.

Bring me shrimp, crabs, oranges, kim-chi, Dr. Pepper, Heineken, just about anything, and that puts me in a good frame of mind to deal on fish.

Brett

[Flounder]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fishbreeder Folks ask me, "How do you know how to price these fish?" I tell 'em, "By the kind of car you drove up in." Bring me shrimp, crabs, oranges, kim-chi, Dr. Pepper, Heineken, just about anything, and that puts me in a good frame of mind to deal on fish. Brett

OK now I know how Brett does it. Next time I come to his farm, I'll drive a beater and bring him "gifts," that should be good for something.

[Lam Nguyen]

Hey Brett, I don't have kim-chi, but I have fresh spring rolls. Care for some? No, seriously, thanks for sharing with all of us your perspective. I am probably one of those guys who will pay too much for your fish and have you laughing all the way to the bank!

For me, I think that the biggest fear when buying koi at a dealer is being fooled into purchasing koi at a much higher price than its fair market value. I don't want the dealer to think that I am a "sucker". Therefore, my strategy of late has been to look at a koi that is bowled and set a fair price in my mind before I ask the dealer for a price. If the dealer's price is similar to mine, then I don't bargain too much, if at all. If it is much higher that what I thought the price should be, then I would ask the dealer why the price is so high for that particular koi. If I don't agree with his explanations, then I would thank him and have him release the koi back into the pond. On the other hand, if the price is much smaller that my estimated price, then I start to think that there's something wrong with the koi.

I agree with Brett that one should never point out the bad faults/qualities in a koi in hopes of reducing the price. I believe that another etiquette while at a dealer's shop is to never point out any negative things such as a dead or sick koi or how the water is not clear or the filter smells, etc. I am sure that the dealer already knows these things if he/she is a good dealer. Anyways, just my thoughts.

[gcuss]

This is a great thread, and one I'm watching closely. This is my first year of actually going to a dealer and picking out my fish. So I was the guy saying "how much for fish in this pond/tank?" Having only bought a few koi from a nursery nearby, I was used to a price above each different tank. Imagine what I thought when I heard "well, tell me which one you like, and I'll tell you how much". This goes against EVERYTHING I've ever associated with making a purchase. Could you imagine going into a car dealership, finding a salesman, then going on and on about what you like about a car, why you want that car, and then asking how much with nothing else to compare it to price wise?? Might as well just give him the deed to your house!

I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable with this arrangement, however, it's the one I will have to work with. I hope my approach to shopping, while uneducated in the koi purchasing world, will serve me well:

1 - Don't be an ass. Period. Already been stated, but the minute you start trying to de-value the fish the dealer/breeder has, you best just leave. When selling vehicles after I've upgraded, I won't even sell my car to someone who starts to pick it apart. I'm aware of it's virtues/setbacks and have priced it accordingly. There's always some wiggle room, but if you insult me or whatever I'm selling... the price becomes hard and fast PDQ. If you honestly feel it's a rip off. Leave, you won't get anywhere insulting the fish or the dealer.

2 - Give respect to get respect. Be honest about your budget, and what you hope to achieve. I think the fish that I've purchased have been pretty nice deals and I didn't haggle one bit. I gave a price range I was comfortable with, and a description of what I hoped to accomplish with the fish. He did the rest and I think he went out of his way to stretch my dollar as far as he could. Without gushing like a school kid, show some appreciation as well. If you feel he gave you a great deal, thank him for it. Recognition is nice.

3 - Support your dealer; bring friends along that are starting out in Koi. If your dealer is holding an event of some sort. Attend. Share your positive experiences with others if asked. Word of mouth is simply the best advertising there is, no matter the industry.

4 - Don't waste the dealers time by having him bowl fish you can't afford, or aren't interested in buying. You wanna dream? Go to a show. I don't go to the Chevy dealership and ask to test drive the corvette when I'm looking for a truck.

5 - "Please and thank you's". No matter what you're doing or where you are... can't say enough about the mileage of these two.

6 - Read the play; If it's a slow day for them, and you get the vibe he's not in a rush, ask some questions. I've learned a lot from my dealer about everything from fish to why one net is better than another. Not only am I getting an education, people enjoy sharing what they know with others. (if they didn't, forums such as this wouldn't exist)

Anyway... these are just some random thoughts about my experience thus far. The usual disclaimer of course that I'm a newbie, I really don't have a clue about Koi yet, but I have been buying things my entire life...



Grant

[Fishbreeder]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen I agree with Brett that one should never point out the bad faults/qualities in a koi in hopes of reducing the price. I believe that another etiquette while at a dealer's shop is to never point out any negative things such as a dead or sick koi or how the water is not clear or the filter smells, etc. I am sure that the dealer already knows these things if he/she is a good dealer. Anyways, just my thoughts.

Only way you gonna see a dead fish at my shop is if you get there before I do......

Now, there is no doubt the fish house gets that "bait house smell" from time to time. I can live with that for awhile, but a three day old dead fish gets to me. I can smell a dead fish from a thousand yards. Problem is, most of the time if it gets three days stinky its because I can;t find it. I can't think of anything that smells worse than a three day old dead carp in summer. Maybe a three day old dead snapping turtle....

I learnt when I was a clerk in a fish shop putting myself through college that you can;t be having dead fish, dirty water, funny smells, etc. in a fish shop and expect to sell any fish.

One day this woman shows up in a 25 year old pickup. She wants a particularly expensive koi, badly, but it is waaay out of her budget. She's a local I've seen around town. We strike a deal and she leaves with the fish. The next Saturday I have my teenage daughter at the farm helping me work when this woman shows up in her old truck and leaves me $200, says "howdy" and drives away. My daughter wonders what this is all about and asks. I explain that the woman bought an expensive koi and is paying it out over time. Aftter some thought my daughter says, "Know what? I think I'd not have a fish and make payments on a new car." All I could think of to say was, "Yes you could, but that woman has her priorities straight."

Hmmmm.......seems I remember my last batch of yogurt from Big D got ate up by koi collecting yogurt thieves.

Brett

[PapaBear]

I think Brett really nailed it for me.
Suckers and A**holes are a pain in the butt, and they tend to be the same person...

Very many moons ago I sold cars for a short while. One day a self impressed attorney came in and refused to even speak to a lowly salesman. He only wanted to deal with the GM, who schmoozed him, coddled him, and hung an inflated price so far up his butt that we all got a good laugh at his expense, while he drove off in the car he thought he had gotten a great deal on...

The "know it all" that tries to bluff their way to a bargain usually displays their ignorance whilst showing their a$$, which reminds me.

A buddy of mines son recently did something really dumb as a "stunt". (got himself a fractured skull in the process)
Daddy suggested he get a tattoo of a window on his stomach. That way he could always look down to see how far he had his head up his ass before he tried any more bright ideas

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by gcuss 1 - Don't be an ass. Period. Already been stated, but the minute you start trying to de-value the fish the dealer/breeder has, you best just leave. When selling vehicles after I've upgraded, I won't even sell my car to someone who starts to pick it apart. I'm aware of it's virtues/setbacks and have priced it accordingly. There's always some wiggle room, but if you insult me or whatever I'm selling... the price becomes hard and fast PDQ. If you honestly feel it's a rip off. Leave, you won't get anywhere insulting the fish or the dealer. 2 - Give respect to get respect. Be honest about your budget, and what you hope to achieve. I think the fish that I've purchased have been pretty nice deals and I didn't haggle one bit. I gave a price range I was comfortable with, and a description of what I hoped to accomplish with the fish. He did the rest and I think he went out of his way to stretch my dollar as far as he could. Without gushing like a school kid, show some appreciation as well. If you feel he gave you a great deal, thank him for it. Recognition is nice. 3 - Support your dealer; bring friends along that are starting out in Koi. If your dealer is holding an event of some sort. Attend. Share your positive experiences with others if asked. Word of mouth is simply the best advertising there is, no matter the industry. 4 - Don't waste the dealers time by having him bowl fish you can't afford, or aren't interested in buying. You wanna dream? Go to a show. I don't go to the Chevy dealership and ask to test drive the corvette when I'm looking for a truck. 5 - "Please and thank you's". No matter what you're doing or where you are... can't say enough about the mileage of these two. 6 - Read the play; If it's a slow day for them, and you get the vibe he's not in a rush, ask some questions. I've learned a lot from my dealer about everything from fish to why one net is better than another. Not only am I getting an education, people enjoy sharing what they know with others. (if they didn't, forums such as this wouldn't exist) Anyway... these are just some random thoughts about my experience thus far. The usual disclaimer of course that I'm a newbie, I really don't have a clue about Koi yet, but I have been buying things my entire life... Grant

I would also add to this list:

Take time and explore the shop you want to deal with.

[markgardner]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen I believe that another etiquette while at a dealer's shop is to never point out any negative things such as a dead or sick koi or how the water is not clear or the filter smells, etc. I am sure that the dealer already knows these things if he/she is a good dealer. Anyways, just my thoughts.

I'm sorry but i fundamentally disagree, specifically with a dead or sick Koi. Yeah, they may know about it, they may not know about, enquiring about it should provoke a reasonable explanation, if it's a dead Koi they have no idea about they should at best thank you for alerting them!

As a responsible hobbyist surely everyone should point out dead or sick fish?

If the dealer couldn't give a toss when you tell then there are questions to be asked!