Sanke x Shiro ?

[Marco_]

Hi there. Through searching on google i found this forum and it looks to me that there's a lot of knowledge here about koi breeding.

Just yesterday we have let a shiro female play with a sanke man, and they did what they had to do. Now the question is: what kind of fry will we get, and in which way should we cull ? Look for showa ? Look for shiro ? Keep the black or loose the black ?

Any of you experience with sanke x shiro ?

[gspotmc]

sanro or shike joke only. I don't know

[koiczar]

This is very interesting combination for breeding. I think you're going to have to wait this one out. First cull should be to eliminate all visible deformities. After that, keep some black some white and watch to see what happens. This will be a true crapshoot for what you get out of it.

Mike

[Marco_]

These are the parents.

Shiro Utsuri, 5 years old, Hideo, female.
Sanke, 5 years old, T. Sakai, male

[MikeM]

As the fry grow, please post photos. This will be fun to watch.

BTW, the parents compliment each other fairly well.

[dick benbow]

I suggest you cull for showa/shiro. After hatching on the third day cull all the light yellow
and keep only the black babies. feed them live food for a month. each month as you cull look for kohaku pattern which will start as light yellow and get oranger every month. You may get some shiro babies. Look for crooked heads. Initially you must separate the bigger tobies from the younger brothers and sisters or they will eat the smaller ones.

[Kristine]

Quote: Originally Posted by gspotmc sanro or shike joke only. I don't know

Michael......Is there something NEW that you need to share with us??? Is that a new Kohaku?

[Marco_]

Hello Dick,

Tnx for your advice. I was considering showa and shiro already, but wasn't sure about which colors to keep. Isn't it true that at the first cull you keep the black, and at the second cull you loose the (way too) black fry ? I think i remember having seen an interview with Omosako who claims to do it this way, but maybe this depends only on his way of culling in relation to his bloodlines...

How many shrimp fry would you give ? Last year we hatched 60 grams per day, and still they died...

[PapaBear]

I would also assume culling for Showa would be your best chance for success, but keeping some white ones just to see what they do might be interesting if you have the space. Last year we supplemented live food with finely powdered high protein pellets and they thrived on it so you might consider trying that if you can't hatch enough shrimp.

Brett posted this recipe for live food elsewhere. It may come in handy.

"In a 100 gallon container that has some aeration and dechlorinated water add the following...

One quart of hard boiled iceberg lettuce and the "juice" it was boiled in.

One good armful of fresh hay or a gallon or so of dried grass clippings.

One quart of "live" water from a watergarden pool, standing water in a ditch, or if nothing else, water from the fish pond.

What you're shooting for here is rotifers, glass worms, and other very small plankters that are not easily seen with the naked eye. If you see stuff easily that is swimming around like little "bugs" you either got Daphne or Cyclops, both too big for the fry to eat, and big enough to eat the fry. These are good foods for two week old fry.

Usually the rotifers will come along in about three or four days.

Siphon some of the water from the rotifer tank to the fry tank about four or five times a day. Two or three days of this is enough then switch to artificial diet.

Timing is everything. So...

At 24 hours post hatch you will need to begin feeding the fry. You can use a mixture of hard boiled egg yolk and weight lifter's protein supplement at day one. Blend the materials then filter tham through a fine cloth or other fine material to remove the "chunks". Feed a small amount four to six times a day for the next two days. On day three switch to the rotifer soup. On day five start using the commercial "egg layer fry diet".

If so inclined, I've found that the 50 micron shrimp starter you buy from a place like AES works better than anything I;ve gotten from the pet shop.

At two weeks you can switch to ground up aquarium flakes.

All this time you must watch ammonia in the fry tank, if it elevates at all it will kill the fry. These rich soups will elevate the ammonia, so you will need to either filter tha tank or change the water regularly.

To filter the tank and not remove the fry use a couple of sponge filters. Best if they've been running in some tank water for about two weeks before you need them in your fry tank. "

[dick benbow]

Marco, when it comes to following famous japanese breeders advice your on your own because of the mixed color varieties your gene mixing.
What is important is to feed live food the first month to REDUCED numbers of fry and keep sorting out but retaining toby. Use this first year to learn what develops but do it with small numbers for healthy koi that can show you what they have instead of ones that have been
affected adversely with inadequate space and live food. Next year you'll have something more to go by. It is possible to get something from the cross but the % is gonna be small.