Selling Koi for profit?

[JasPR]

Thanks, I was concerned it was a little too heavy handed and me me. I just wanted to give a perspective and an expectation. So glad you got that.

One thing is certain, if you/we breed your/our own fish, two things will happen:

1) you/we will get an appreciation for high class fish in that they are rare and difficult to make. That should actually support the price of good koi.

2) you will be very unlikely to ever again pay up for common koi traits. ANYONE can make a shiro muji. And anyone can make an Arkansas bekko. Or an aka muji. If they are from quality and have great skin they can even be appreciated. But they really have no value. That is the 'hobby' of breeding. And as long as you are having fun- more power to you!

[MysticKoi]

Quote: I often imagine there is a poster of me in some small out of the way Shinkokai home office similar to the wanted posters you see in the Post Office.

Where was it that I saw that... hmmm... can't remember (bad case of jet lag). I can tell you though, they played a serious game of darts!

Kind Regards,
Bill

[JasPR]

You forgot to mention the 'JR voodoo dolls' sold at most shinkokai meetings . Ouch , that feels like a pin in my eye! JR

[JanT]

JR -"The key here is to buy from the same guys over many years but NOT to be with the same handlers. And at some point it is important to strike out on your own. And also to cultivate relationships with important hobbyists in Japan who fast track your education and open doors to certain breeders. What I mean here is you need to free yourself from the distribution system at some point. Any one can do it and many have. I just happen to one of them and one that frequents these koi boards. It just takes, time, networking, money and perseverance. This process includes the school of hard knocks- being burnt by breeders, dealers, locals and you own raw untrained eye! And you always need to remind yourself that the system of koi distribution is fundamentally flawed and dishonest, but that the koi are innocent and are the point of the exercise. And of course, that time will sort out the few trust worthy people over there. Everyone who has really gotten to the inside of the industry knows what I'm talking about. "

JR, you have absolutely said a mouthful here! I am glad you expanded on all of this at your level. Honestly, there are many who do not know these things and would be helpful to some. I admire your longevity in this hobby and your zest for learning. Few will actually ever achieve these experiences due to the confines of money and, well, simply their age. Only wish personally we would have started the hard core study of nishikigoi much earlier in life. The school of hard knocks is always less bruising when young. LOL Like that Japanese purchase for wayyyy too much money just because we wanted to bring home one bigggg koi, and let our 'raw,untrained eyes' lead the bank account............among other very harsh, but necessary lessons from the same era. I guess when it is all said and done, you have to just be thankful we were freely able to make our own decisions (God bless the USA), taking full responsibility for the outcome, and learning along the way. And, the biggie is having some fun. And it is fun. I always remind myself ----it's about the koi, and lord knows they have no idea about all the other 'stuff' you encounter.

Oh, and I think you are allowed some pats on the back to yourself........just don't let it get out of hand.

So, now, how much for one of your sanke babies?

[JasPR]

Jan, it sounds like you have gotten a real perspective on things at this point and managed to keep your focus on the koi , pure. That is a really good thing.

You know the saying ' nishikigoi begins with kohaku and ends with kohaku'. I'd like to add a variation: Koi keeping begins with enthusiasm and ends with enthusiasm.
It is that school of hard knocks, disappointing distribution network and people stuff that causes us to wander in the wilderness for a time. Some newbies, unfortunately have the enthusiasm wrung right out of them before they get to the other side. We can't change the nature of the dealer distribution chain or really any of our impulses when we are not aware of them to begin with! Perspective is wisdom.

The koi ARE innocent. Have a great day, JR

[l113892]

Tom Lansing used to give me sh.. because I had never been to Japan and my arguments, without that background, were groundless. I've been there four times now. I learned the most on the first trip, not nearly as much this trip, but it will take many more- maybe many lifetimes.

[JasPR]

I agree. each time one goes to Japan there is a diminishing return per trip. But that is in itself a sign of progress. But without going at all, without that exposure to open your eyes to a bigger picture of what koi is, you could wander in the dark for many many years. And worse, the dealers can tell you any thing they like and you might believe them if you have not seen things for yourself.
I could tell you what Disney world was like or NASCAR racing was like, but unless you have been there to see the scale, hear the action and experience it, it is really just something left to your imagination.
The two most shocking things I have ever heard in this hobby were:
when a fellow judge told me proudly that he had never been to Japan and refused to go as he did not want the Japanese way of looking at koi to distort his own self taught vision of koi.
the second most amazing comment I have ever heard was Americans need to have their own way of looking at koi. There is no American way of looking at koi. That is a myth propogated by those unwilling or unable to learn more.
These are rationalizations latched on to by those with a desire not to learn depth or detail regarding koi. Guess what, as the level of sophistication about koi rises worldwide, the advanced koi keeper of today will become the dinosaur of yesterday if continuing ed is not persued. Going to Japan to be exposed to all grades of koi and to see hundreds of really good koi will twirl your world more than a thousand bad yard spawinings will ever do.
Perspective is wisdom. JR

[PapaBear]

Let's face it. Learning the hobby and the breeders craft is a lot like the ponds most of us started with. Too little volume (knowledge), far too shallow (wisdom), and grossly under-filtered (perspective)...and we thought they were "great"with all those rocks in the bottom (or our heads) Several years and a few re-builds/upgrades later we "almost" get it right...

[Russell Peters]

When does the profit part happen anyway?

[gcuss]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters When does the profit part happen anyway?

Soon young Skywalker, patience, you must have. Profit, you shall make... maybe?


Grant