kohaku losing red - is it the fish or my pond/water factors?

[aquitori]

The pond looks really shallow in the pics, maybe too much sun and high PH?

But regardless the breeder name, it still doesnt prove the beni will be stable.

[MikeM]

Trienth: The joking is not at you, nor making light of your situation. We've all been through this and have felt the misery of having the excitement over a new koi fade with the red. It's a tough lesson to learn, and especially since you checked out the breeder to get some assurance.

My first fading Hi koi was a Goshiki. I got two nice sized tosai at a koi show. They had brilliant red over light gray base color. The one with the best pattern lost all the red over a period of a few weeks. The other held her's. Then, over a period a month or so, the gray faded away as well... on both. So, one looked like a Shiromuji and the other like a Kohaku. After a few weeks I gave away the Shiromuji. It had become downright ugly to my eye with yellow tones appearing a few purplish specks. The other had an interesting reticulation of purplish gray show up in the white ground, but after a couple years simply would not grow for me. I gave her to a friend who kept her for several years... but the reticulation disappeared on him. She seemed to be a dwarf Kohaku, not exceeding 16". She got a new home when he moved away from Orlando. I'm told her current owners love her. Looking back, I learned a good deal from those two koi, but I did not buy them for such a lesson. It was a real disappointment.

Better luck next time.

[trienth]

Thanks for the kind words, and thanks everyone for the comments! It was Extremely interesting and helpful. I'd read about looking for colour a few scales deep, but never knew how to do it till now.

My dad (the actual pond and koi owner) was Extremely dejected when he read the shiro muji and ebay comments LOL. While we didn't pay show-koi prices for the kohaku, it wasn't cheap either.

Water seems good (measured today)
PH 8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 25mg/l

Pond: 1500 gallons (not including filter chambers), approx 6000 litres
Depth 3 ft
Length 14ft
Width 5 ft
Temperature: I'm in southeast asia, so it can get pretty hot
(thanks for recommending a name to look out for at shows, but unfortunately I'm in the wrong region ;p )

Population: 10 fish, the largest two are approx 1ft (kohaku is one)

Stress-wise:
Well, it did jump out of the tub and flop on the dry concrete when we were buying it. We also had two fish go down the drain - literally.. they got sucked down the bottom drain and died. One of the bodies was stuck in the drain for 2.5 days before it washed out the other side.

The Kohaku seems happy though. It eats like a vacuum cleaner and is just as noisy.

We're not looking to grow jumbo koi per se, and we're not buying for show/competition purposes. But as part of the learning process and eventual end result, we would like to have some good quality pet koi

[CarolinaGirl]

yes...I think you are in the wrong region for you to run into Mat at a show. that's too bad. So what you want is a pond-grade fish, but yet one that will look nice and hold it's color. That can be had. In order for a fish to be very competitive in a show, it has to have the deep high quality beni, but also beni in the right places. If you could establish a good relationship with a dealer or breeder, let them know you would be happy to accept a mis-marked fish, as long as the beni is deep and strong. A kohaku with good deep beni....but with no red on it's head or one with too much red in it's fins means a fish that would have been very expensive if the markings had been right, but will sell for less because of the bad pattern. I'll give you a good example. I have a VERY high quality showa. Her beni is deep, her sumi is coming up in all the right places, but her beni is limited to the front end only.....none on the back half. She is a beautiful fish and I will enjoy her for years, but she will never show. I also recently bought another showa that is stunning!! Except that the back 1/3 of one of her pec fins is gone. Because of her fin deformity, she was very cheap. Again...I'll enjoy her for years to come because she has very high quality beni and sumi, but she will never show and was priced accordingly. So don't look for the fish with the perfect markings that has a good price tag. Great breeder, great marking, deep beni, and great price don't add up.

[JasPR]

Do those 'rare' no step kohaku come in the 'unique' long fin type? JR

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by trienth Thanks for the kind words, and thanks everyone for the comments! It was Extremely interesting and helpful. I'd read about looking for colour a few scales deep, but never knew how to do it till now. My dad (the actual pond and koi owner) was Extremely dejected when he read the shiro muji and ebay comments LOL. While we didn't pay show-koi prices for the kohaku, it wasn't cheap either. Water seems good (measured today) PH 8 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 25mg/l Pond: 1500 gallons (not including filter chambers), approx 6000 litres Depth 3 ft Length 14ft Width 5 ft Temperature: I'm in southeast asia, so it can get pretty hot (thanks for recommending a name to look out for at shows, but unfortunately I'm in the wrong region ;p ) Population: 10 fish, the largest two are approx 1ft (kohaku is one) Stress-wise: Well, it did jump out of the tub and flop on the dry concrete when we were buying it. We also had two fish go down the drain - literally.. they got sucked down the bottom drain and died. One of the bodies was stuck in the drain for 2.5 days before it washed out the other side. The Kohaku seems happy though. It eats like a vacuum cleaner and is just as noisy. We're not looking to grow jumbo koi per se, and we're not buying for show/competition purposes. But as part of the learning process and eventual end result, we would like to have some good quality pet koi

You pretty much have the same size pond I have, the factors at be seems to be poor quality in a said name brand. I think the next time you look into buying Dainichi, look for the fine qualities of stablity.

1. consistant hi and depth of hi
2. Kiwa and sashi
3. clean shiroji

Also, how much sun does your pond get?

[nguyen4]

Hi Aquitori , do the sun part will affect to your koi?

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by nguyen4 Hi Aquitori , do the sun part will affect to your koi?

It use to, before the tree next to my pond grew and covered the sun. What I noticed before was the skin looked old and tinted a bit yellow, but when the sun got more shade the fish got alot better in skin quality and didnt look hard and tinted....

Tony

[PapaBear]

Where exactly in SE Asia are you located??? There are some very advanced Koi Kichi in Malaysia/Singapore you could learn a great deal from face to face if you are nearby.

[trienth]

I'm in Singapore actually

Regarding the sun: the pond gets about 4 hours of late morning sun to early afternoon sun, but one corner is covered by decking and the fish used to hide there.
What does 'hard' skin look like?

It was by chance that we got the opportunity to get the Dainichi - it just so happened they had some on hand when we went for a look-see. We'll probably get another kohaku, but I don't think we're in a rush - we don't want the water to foul up or overstock (we haven't had our green water yet, are wondering if we've escaped it).

I've decided to name this one 'Pillow'.
And hey, I really am looking for a long fin (though at first my dad said it'd devalue our whole pond lol).

I would assume that 'bending' the fish trick to check deepness of colour would also apply if I was looking at other patterns eg. ochiba?