Judging Young Koi

[Lam Nguyen]

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Kindai I know that it would confuse..... The showa that I posted are (from left to right) Young Champion at Kanagawa-prefecture Koi show. 38bu and 43bu Kokugyo award (best in size) at All Japan Young Koi show 2007.

Awesome showa! I thought they are yours! After I looked at those showa I immediately ran out to look at my showa and thought to myself that my collection's down the drain. Thanks for sharing, Super Kindai. Definitely beautiful tategoi!!!! Now, how does one get a hand on one of those?!

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen Awesome showa! I thought they are yours! After I looked at those showa I immediately ran out to look at my showa and thought to myself that my collection's down the drain. Thanks for sharing, Super Kindai. Definitely beautiful tategoi!!!! Now, how does one get a hand on one of those?!

Hi Lam, I think that your showa are all good. these showa are just a bit too good for us...? (hahaha)



Some hobbyists would not really pay attention on her (the attached picture) maybe because sumi is not up or the pattern....

On the other hand, some other group of people pay great attention and one of them was not hesitate to spend $30K on her.....

[JasPR]

Right, but a raw tategoi should not be in a koi show. It should be brought along until it is ready to show. No one in their right mind would pay $30M for a finished baby GC. It just isn't worth it as it has limited future. Yet it is the best fish on the day for winning the tiny GC.
A fish that is bought for $30M assumes that it will come into it's own high finish at a greater size. A size that will be in line with the 30M price tag at the time- it is akin to buying a future's contract on an adult GC.

This is the fundamental difference between Breeder judging and amateur judging. And amateur judging in Japan and amateur judging in the USA.
A breeder will always pick the 'best fish' , meaning the fish with the number one intrensic/innate value ( genetic qualities). An amateur judge, on the other hand, will pick the most beautiful finished fish on the day with a sliding scale for quality, and it's weighting, as the fish grows. JR

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Right, but a raw tategoi should not be in a koi show. It should be brought along until it is ready to show. No one in their right mind would pay $30M for a finished baby GC. It just isn't worth it as it has limited future. Yet it is the best fish on the day for winning the tiny GC. A fish that is bought for $30M assumes that it will come into it's own high finish at a greater size. A size that will be in line with the 30M price tag at the time- it is akin to buying a future's contract on an adult GC.

JR, if anyone pays $30M(illon) dollars for a fish they would have to be crazy...

[JasPR]

Or have very little respect for money! LOLs

These days I use the 2% rule. What is that? I spend 2% of my annual income on koi each year ( excluding dry goods and equipment- just the koi themselves). That way, it 'sounds' responsible! JR

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR This is the fundamental difference between Breeder judging and amateur judging. And amateur judging in Japan and amateur judging in the USA. A breeder will always pick the 'best fish' , meaning the fish with the number one intrensic/innate value ( genetic qualities). An amateur judge, on the other hand, will pick the most beautiful finished fish on the day with a sliding scale for quality, and it's weighting, as the fish grows. JR

JR, It WAS one of my mystery..... Why my fellow ZNA judges in USA, ZNA judges from Japan, Japanese breeders and AKCA judges picked different fish.....

it's not a right or a wrong..... there may be no "the ultimate judge" simply because different point of views.... a good fish is good, anyway...

[JasPR]

well, just as we have our favorite varieties of koi we , as judges, must leave our personal views out of judging. In the same way we may like showa but choose a sanke as a best of size because the sanke is simply a better fish, we must also choose the best fish in a beauty contest as a finished beauty ( and not maybe the fish would actually personally buy if offered the two competitors in a sale).

The Japanese breeder judge is picking the fish with the best genetics. This can be without regard to it's condition, current luster or even minor faults. I remember one breeder, for instance, that picked a tancho with an absolutely awful head pattern as number one. His explanation to me was that the beni on the bad tancho mark was of a superior quality to the beni on the better tanchos competing. I think this was a perfect illustration of breeder eye clashing with show standard eyes.
In the opposite example- The extreme amateur breeder may be completely unaware of quality and be picking a fish simply because it has a lovely pattern, or flashy colors. Never really seeing that the fish is generally inferior in quality to all the other fish around it.
I think the enlightened judge can recognize the limits to both these points of view and pick the RIGHT fish on the day.
getting back to the subject, a tategoi is unfinished by definition. A show fish brings great luster and finish to the show ring if it is going to win unanimously. JR

[Super Kindai]

Thank you JR, I always love to read your opinions/comments.
the most precious fish for many breeders maybe Oyagoi and the best fish for many hobbyists will be a show winner fish.....
What I have noticed in these years is that "the idea" between Japanese breeders and ZNA judges become much closer than they used to be...

[JasPR]

That's very true, Kindai. As the amateur judge's eye becomes more sophisticated, he or she begins, for the first time, to see what breeders must see if they are to pick good tategoi and good future oyagoi- and that is - quality. It is the skill of looking at the whole koi and seeing it for what it is.
As you know, Koi come in levels of quality that we all call grades.
Still, at the end of the day, we are left to decide whether to recognize the raw high quality animal or the beautiful finished and colored up, albeit, lower quality fish. This is the real challenge of judging koi in America and the final frontier for beginner and intermediate level judges.
You are one of our finest up and coming America koi judges and I think you already have a good handle on this subject. With judges like you around, koi education is in good hands-

JR