All Female vs All Male vs Mixed Gender Pond

[KoiCop]

Only folks with an unusual combination of resources (time, space and money) and obsession (to grow, maintain and show a string of GC's) will ever have unisex/unisize ponds for their koi.

For the rest of us, there's reality: Big dreams and small pieces of the pie (if we're lucky).

[Lam Nguyen]

Long live the journey, PapaBear!!!!

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop Only folks with an unusual combination of resources (time, space and money) and obsession (to grow, maintain and show a string of GC's) will ever have unisex/unisize ponds for their koi. For the rest of us, there's reality: Big dreams and small pieces of the pie (if we're lucky).

Truer words were never spoken
Our finances allow us to have nice daydreams, compete in our small "niche" of the show, and hang out with the big guns while trying not to drool all over their fish

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Truer words were never spoken Our finances allow us to have nice daydreams, compete in our small "niche" of the show, and hang out with the big guns while trying not to drool all over their fish

LOL, Larry. That's us fer shure!

And since JR's hasn't been posting recently, hopefully he won't mind me putting up a post of his from last year containing some of his patented insight on this very topic:

A pond of all adult female koi is an impressive sight. And it tends to make the male koi in the pond look kinda insignificant. On the other hand, an all male pond looks great in shallow, smaller ponds and for hobbyists that like bright 'in-your-face' color and lots of action around feeding time.

But the issue about male presence making females less likely to become egg bound holds no water, IMHO. Unless your friend was suggesting that females can only get rid of roe by spawning? Which, by the way, is not accurate.

In fact, the risks associated with spawning could off set the perceived benefit that spawning keeps the female reproductive tract healthy. That might be true in mammals like dogs but not fish.

A female fish lays down what will be future eggs in early fall, and these cells are activated in spring after winter temperature and a dormant period. The eggs then grow many times to become viable eggs when spring temperatures, light days and diet trigger the hormones. None of this involves male presence.

If the fish does not spawn, this mass is reabsorbed. In addition, the eggs themselves are only good for a short period and are being reabsorbed all the time during that hormonal period.

Most cases of 'female' problems involve infection or cancerous masses. If the fish dropped her eggs, it could be argued that there would be nothing to get infected. But that is different then saying it was the cause of the infection. Koi also get a lot of kidney infections and we never consider getting rid of the kidneys! JR

[Lam Nguyen]

Thanks for sharing KoiCop. That was my initial understanding too, that females loaded w/ eggs need to spawn to prevent them from being egg-bound, but in talking to a few high-end hobbyists the understanding is that females don't have to spawn as long as you give them the right diet and plenty of current/room to exercise.

Larry & Don, I am sure that we all daydream about our next koi and I am certain that you guys can have an all-female pond if you guys want to.

[CarolinaGirl]

Of course, one solution is to have TWO ponds! When I built my big pond, I also built a lily pond for my plants. luckily I did build it big, and really too deep for water plants (about 34" deep) and I put in a 4" bottom drain for easy spring cleaning. Well, the lilies all live in a kiddy pool right now, and the lily pond is now my Male pond, the bottom drain tied into a filter. So I let pretty males who are small and not rowdy live in the big pond with the girls, but once they start getting some size to them....or I catch them chasing a female....they go to the other pond. Works really well for me!

[schildkoi]

I am going to tackle this one from a totally different angle. Yes, I show koi. Yes, I like large koi but I am not typically competitive in that larger sizes. Those do not even come into play for me as it relates to male vs female vs a mixed pond. To me, first and foremost is the health of the koi thenselves. many might then assume since it is easier to care for male (higher stocking densities) koi that this would be the way to go. Many might make the arguement that female koi are more mprssive at "size."

Female koi tend to be more enjoyable for a longer period of time and thus tend, at least for me be a better investment as I study their longer period of developement and "peak" period.

Second to that is the likelihood that female koi (and even to some extent male koi) will be more prone to damage due to spawnings.....let alone the severe degradation in water quality and thus increased risk from that end. I have seen many koi not only "ruined" but severly damaged and even killed as a result of spawnings. It takes a highly skilled koi keeper to successfully keep koi in condition, let alone with the increased risks associated with a mixed pond. The irony is that typically, those with those skills are the ones who elect NOT to keep a mixed pond. That should speak volumes for those considering otherwise but typically falls on deft ears.

Steve

[PapaBear]

Those are some very good observations Steve.
We were lucky about a million times over the first time ours spawned (in a 1 month old pond). We were nearly as ignorant as we were excited, and how we managed NOT to kill any is nothing short of miraculous. Nowadays we breed on purpose for our own education, but we've done a lot of homework to figure out how to do it in the safest manner possible. If we had mega $$$ females in the pond there's no way we'd be willing to risk them even though we've had practice.

[schildkoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Those are some very good observations Steve. We were lucky about a million times over the first time ours spawned (in a 1 month old pond). We were nearly as ignorant as we were excited, and how we managed NOT to kill any is nothing short of miraculous. Nowadays we breed on purpose for our own education, but we've done a lot of homework to figure out how to do it in the safest manner possible. If we had mega $$$ females in the pond there's no way we'd be willing to risk them even though we've had practice.

Larry, please do not take this the wrong way.

I am always amazed at the shifts in logic based on $$$$$. You say that you would not risk a high dollar koi spawning (even with your doing it in the safest manner possible) but would do it for a lower dollar koi.

The risks are the same, at least to the koi themselves, regardless of the dollar value of the koi.
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The "value" of a koi is measured in other means besides dollars. I often hear people characterize their koi as "their beloved pets." But yet at the same time subject those beloved pets to risks beyond what they would subject another type of pet such as a dog or a cat since they do not understand the difference in risks in spawning verses the breeding of a dog or cat.

Artificial spawning posses a greatly reduced risk to damages due to the act of spawning itself but I don't think that is part of the subject of the thread as it relates to spawning and having a single sex or mixed sex pond.

Simply put, I don't think 99.9% of the people with mixed sex ponds have a true understanding as to the added risk that they have placed their koi into.

Me? When a koi hits 3 years, if it is male, its gone.

Steve

[UP ALL NIGHT!!]

Is it true that 75% of a spawn are males and the other 25% are female? If so why the high % males? Lori