Feeding Frequency

[MikeM]

Conventional wisdom that koi should receive multiple small feedings of a given volume of feed rather than one or two feedings was challenged by Jaspar Kuiper in an article in Koi Nations concerning his research on koi nutrition. At the AKCA Seminar held in Jacksonville, Jasper presented a program on nutrition and feeding. It largely focused on the theory behind the EA Show food. Some aspects of the Koi Nations article were discussed in a bit more depth, particularly the finding that two feedings per day provided maximum results. What was not so clear in the article, but was made clear in the seminar presentation, was that this conclusion was related to maintenance of water clarity. Jasper explained that his criteria included water clarity based on a heavily stocked system with minimal water changes. He was focused on reducing the inroduction of fresh water and maintaining clarity as much as growth and weight gain in the koi.

He explained the methodology used to determine water clarity, and his conclusion from the data that multiple feedings results in continual release of waste into the water column, leading to increased levels of fine particulate matter in the water column. Two feedings per day results in better control of particulates with the filtration systems used.

The discussion of growth and weight gain research data was not sufficient for me to conclude that two feedings per day provided superior results in growth and weight gain. It did appear that increased protein levels correlate with growth and weight gain.

Altogether, I was left wholly unconvinced that two feedings per day are superior to multiple feedings in respect to growth and weight gain. None of the research presented allowed such a conclusion.

[This does not mean that the EA Show formula based on low heat processing of marine worms is not everything it is promoted as being. The theory underlying the product has a certain logic that is appealing. In that respect, I remain very interested in the experience others have using it. (I urged production of a large pellet or a sinking pellet, but I have no reason to think that a pellet suitable for my use will be produced any time soon.) I was somewhat disappointed that the detailed data presented showed brand comparison with only a lower protein pellet typically used in cool seasons by most hobbyists. Other brand formulas appear to have been comparison tested, but the results were not included in this presentation.]

[koiczar]

MikeM

Sounds like your conclusion is that it is just more marketing hype?!?!?

Mike

[cmungo]

I have been wondering about the hype myself. I think the part about what goes into EA and how it is processed is just explaning how their food is made. Everyone who makes food will or should tell you this information so you can make a desicion about their food. I guess that is marketing.

The part about the feeding times could be applied to any feed not just EA. I will amitt that I was about to order a feeder that could be set for 8 feeding per day. Now I'm wondering if I should get the feeder that you can set to feed as much as you want at each feeding instead of a set amount each feeding. I could use it to feed .5% twice a day.

I do have an old feeder that I could use for the growout fish in the smaller QT. The set amount would probably be about 1%. I like to use 2% per day when growing fish. I have some of the EA that I won here on the board. Maybe I'll set the feeder up and give the marketing hype a test.

[PapaBear]

I think I'm going to have to go along with Mike's skepticism on this.

While I have no doubt the EA One is an excellent food and twice daily may give great performance with it, most ponders aren't going to lay out that kind of $$$ for Koi food.

At the OKC show in 2007 we had a seminar on Koi diets and feeding by the head of the Aquaculture Dept at Langston University, who is himself a Koi keeper. His approach was to mimic the normal eating habits of carp as much as possible which means feeding a continual grazer small quantities many times throughout the day, with frequency and volume following water temperature guidelines to keep pace with their natural metabolic rate.

One of the issues that has also been brought up concerning water quality that the "twice daily" cycle overlooks is the stability of bioload in the filter. Small amounts of food promote a relative "continuum" of waste production for the biological filter to process. Feeding large quantities once or twice a day promotes surges of waste production, which increases the odds of small spikes of pollutants and up/down cycles of activity within the bacterial colony.

In my estimation water "quality" trumps water "clarity" every time.

[MikeM]

Mike: Certainly there is hype. EA is very good at marketing. That doesn't mean there isn't good science behind the food. I am a believer when it comes to their Nexus and EAzy products. The Momotaro infra-red stuff was a lot of silliness, but BH is a good product for use in showers and the hype got the hobby re-focused on the benefits of shower filters. So, we need to see past the hype to find out if a real breakthrough has been accomplished. I only heard good reports on EA One (now EA Show) after it came out, and Nancy even raised the idea that it resulted in hikkui being cured on a fish. At more than $10 per pound, it is certainly an expensive fish food with a limited market.

The idea that carp do not eat fish in nature is pretty much true. (I'm sure a river carp would not hesitate to suck in a minnow that got in front of its mouth, but they do not search them out.) So, the marine worms are more like a natural diet. Add lots of insects, crustaceans of all sorts, etc. and you'd have a diet even closer to the natural diet. However, is a natural diet what we desire? Carp may not consume fish, but undoubtedly the composition of carp tissues is more nearly like that of the fish turned into fishmeal than the composition of marine worms. So, it would seem that fishmeal is more likely to contain all the ingredients needed. The issue, however, is getting the amino acids, etc into a form that the digestive system of a koi can best use to create the bodies, growth and health we desire. If ground-up polychaete worms give the components in the form the digestive system is evolved to best use, then real progress in koi diets has been made. I am not able to draw a conclusion from the science presented thus far. So, I am interested in real world experience and keeping an open mind. ...And I'd buy some of those ground-up worms if only there was a sinking pellet or a large-sized floating one. At more than $10 per pound, I am not going to feed half to the skimmers.

[cmungo]

Both sides of the feed frequency theory make a strong convincing case. I find myself agreeing with points made by both sides. I guess actual pond testing with good controls and records would be interesting. If done independently instead of a feed company if might have more integrity. But then, who besides a feed company would be willing to finance such a study.

[Flounder]

Thanks for presenting the info thta was notincluded in the KN article Mike. Now it makes more sense in what was the desired outcome.

For me, feeding 6-7 times per day in the growing months is what I'm doing now and had no second thoughts on feeding them 2x/ day after raeding the article. BTW I too am looking for a second supply of quality sinking pellets besides the Hikari WG.

[koiczar]

MikeM

Yes, you're correct. I wasn't trying to say that EA's new food line was marketing hype, just the reasoning behind the "twice a day" feeding regimen. I think Larry stated it best and so far, has never been proven to be the wrong approach. Water quality over clarity has always been a serious koi keepers motto, so to speak, and I think it was founded on sound principals. Feeding less often usually has to do with "undrfiltered/overstocked" issues which is a good idea, but for those of us with high level bio capacity above/beyond our fish loads, it doesn't make sense.

I was appreciative of the facts you added in your first post to help "clarify" what was being said in Jasper's article. Clears up a lot of possible misconception - and we all know what that can do!

Mike

[KoiCop]

Thanks for putting his article and his lecture into context, Mike.

Does anyone know of anybody who's using both EA food and Jasper's feeding schedule?

[dick benbow]

Have used EA Show now for part of last year and this spring BUT not according to his new theory.

I think both Mike's on this thread have had some very good input. I especially relate to the low stocking rate, heavily filtered and higher % of exchanged water comment for high end hobbyists.

I think in all things it comes down to being able to compare apples to apples and most hobbyists are quite different in many respects as to pond size, stocking quality of water etc.. that said I respect very much Jaspar's contribution to the hobby and would want to UNDERSTAND more, why the new concept.

My intent is to continue to use his very fine product, numerous times a day as mixed in with saki- hikari growth. It is my experience based mindset that I feed heaviest in the am feedings and taper away toward evening. ( quite the reverse of most folks i know) My reasoning is that during evening hrs with any loss of power and Oxygen demand the highest from algea, fish digesting meals, and filters, it's very easy to get big eaters in trouble should a problem occurr...