age in koi, stages in koi

[JasPR]

I don’t really buy the popular notion that seven dog years is equal to one human year of life. But on another level, it does make sense. I imagine that some bight bulb figured this math relationship out based on key events in the life of all living things, then he or she applied a ‘ multiplier factor’ to parallel those events.
As living, maturing things, almost all life on earth has a infant, fry or larvae stage, a juvenile stage or prepubescent stage, a sexually mature stage and a mature adult stage.
And the seven year dog stage attempts to parallel those life events. So large breeds tend to pass away at age 12-14 or at 84- 98 in human years. But species are different and dogs can breed easily at one year or so which equates to parenthood at age 7-8 in human terms?! In truth, I’m sure the numbers ‘slide’ based on those life stages I mentioned.
And even dogs disrupt the tidy ‘seven year’ rule as they change in size with tiny breeds living far longer than giant breeds ( Great Danes and Irish wolf hounds living to be 7-9 and toy poodles making it to 16-18). But still, puberty is pretty close in all ages. More interesting to the plot here is the wild dog or wolf. In the wild, a wolf rarely lives beyond 10 and 7-8 is the normal life span in the wild. But this is about environment as wolves life spans in captivity have proven. In Captivity, wolves easily pass the ‘natural’ life span with records approaching 20 years. If we applied the seven years rule to captive wolves than a life span in human terms would be 140 years?! Close to toy poodles and not German Shepards ( that ironically,look more like ‘wolves).
So what does this have to do with our koi? Well our koi, as domestic versions of the wild carp, also have a fry stage, a juvenile stage, a sexually mature stage and a mature adult stage. They also have an accepted life span of 15- 20 years ( with 22- 23 year being a common possible age among certain varieties).
Let’s apply the ‘seven year dog rule’ to koi and see how it fits;
Tosai - human equivalent 1- 7 years of age ( fry to early juvenile)
age 2 - human equivalent 8- 14 years of age ( juvenile)
age 3 - human equiv 15- 21 years of age ( sexual maturing)
age 4 - human equiv 22- 28 years of age ( fully mature)
age 5 - human equiv 29- 35 years of age ( mature adult)
age 6 - human equiv 36- 42 years of age ( mature adult)
age 7 - human equiv 43- 49 years of age ( mature adult)
age 8 - human equiv 50- 56 years of age ( aging mature adult)
age 9 - human equiv 57- 63 years of age ( aging mature adult)
age 10 - human equiv 64- 70 years of age ( senior)
age 11 - human equiv 71- 77 years of age ( senior)
age 12 - human equiv 78- 84 years of age ( senior )
age 13 - human equiv 85- 91 years of age ( senior)
age 14 - human equiv 92-98 years of age ( senior)
age 15 - human equiv 99- 105
age 16 - human equiv 106- 112
age 17 - human equiv 113- 119
age 18 - human equiv 120- 126
age 19 - human equiv 127- 133
age 20 - human equiv 134- 140
A word about the wild carp. Wild carp, like wild wolves can live a remarkable life span in captivity, with ages of 60-80 years documented. Yet in the waters surrounding the Caspian sea ( and in its delta) the birth place of carp, the average age of netted fish is only 3-4 with 7-9 being rarer and fish over 10 being a remarkably rare beast. Not unlike the life spans of wild wolves.
Interesting stats for sure. And the naturalists should find the above stats important and interesting.
But for the koi appreciation student in our group, these stats are about longevity and superficial. To the koi as art folks, these stats should be divided into stages of life.
Ages 1- 2 being prepubescent stages and judged as baby and young fish
Age 3 being a transition stage in which hormones are developing the skin and changing the animal from what it was
Ages 4-5 are the adult stages and females are in all their glory. These fish are different in shape and skin now
ages 5 and above- fully mature adults with traits of quality in full view.

JR

[MikeM]

What your thoughts on trends in the ages of GCs at major Japanese koi shows over the years? We seem to get adjusted to the idea of a SFF GC at age 6 or 7, and then along comes that older Maruyama Showa.

[dick benbow]

go back a few AJS Champions ago till you come to One of Toshio's Sankes that was over 20 when it took the award.


In the National last weekend in the UK the 3rd best fish in the show from Nogami was over a decade old. A dainich bloodline Kohaku that is still growing and improving.....

[JasPR]

I think the emergence of truly high class koi changed everything. And today's high end GCs are still in the early part of mature adulthood. The exceptions to the rule are just that- exceptions. In effect, a 12 year that looks like a 6-8 year old can win.

As long as fish show mature adult traits in the skin and frame, they can be considered candidates for GC ( an adult award).

In the USA, exhibitors have been ' stopped out' in their understanding of the GC because once upon a time, first a fish had to be of a certain size to be GC according to the wisdom of the day and then, just as soon as the exhibitor had learned to look past the pattern and cop to size- the judging focus changed/evolved again and quality ruled. There was a disturbing trend at that moment to pick the 'best fish' over the 'largest fish'. Sounded good, but often this was a dangerous regression back to the pattern/finish domination in decisions. I think we are now, happily, past that in our understanding. JR

[PapaBear]

The "moving target" plays into this quite a bit too, and it takes shape on several levels to my way of thinking.

In the past (60's, 70's) the patterns and colors were in many ways in their infancy in terms of refinement, but the inbreeding improved those with the side effect of reducing both size and longevity relative to common carp, and longevity includes not only lifespan, but the definition of "youth" in terms of skin qualities and textures.

As more magoi were re-introduced along with selective oyagoi exchanges amongst breeders some of the size issues were overcome, but in addition so were some of the premature aging issues. The genetic vigor enhancements of breeding outside a narrow bloodline and magoi genetics combined to add size, strength, longevity, and extended the window of "youth" in the appearance of Koi. The line breeding is still an important part of refining color and pattern strengths, but the gene pool has been widened AND deepened along the way which seems to serve to keep older fish younger longer.

This is of course my personal speculation on the matter, and nothing more.

[JasPR]

In the past (60's, 70's) the patterns and colors were in many ways in their infancy in terms of refinement, but the inbreeding improved those with the side effect of reducing both size and longevity relative to common carp, and longevity includes not only lifespan, but the definition of "youth" in terms of skin qualities and textures.

This part is true I think. In the micro evolution of species you can inbreed for traits and pile them up in varieties. But as you reach the genetic ceiling for phenotype expression, you weaken the animal. Koi are at this point and those who do not understand this assume that someday purple koi, emeral green koi and maybe even marine tropical blues will be possible in koi. These things are not possible as we have reached the genetic ceiling in phenotypic expression in koi as evidenced by smaller, weaker fish.
The only reason Sakai's sanke won the GC was because of the rarity of her size. The one that died at Momotaro's ( the fish's sister) was even bigger. Neither of these fish lived to see the age of 23.

The issue of quality is a conversation about skin/dermis change in collagen type and fiber characteristics. So older phenotypes were MORE like wild carp- not less like carp Their skin was colored but of no different a cellular type than wild carp. Today's high class nishikigoi has different skin when compared to colored koi and wild carp. JR

[RayJordan]

I think Dick is referring to the 1993 Shinkokai AJS Grand Champion Himiko. It was said to be 22 years old when it won and 83 cm. Bred joinly by Toshio and his older brother Toshiyuki Sakai and owned by Shinji Matsumoto.

[JasPR]

Aaah, sorry I was referring to the Jumbo GC. JR

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by RayJordan I think Dick is referring to the 1993 Shinkokai AJS Grand Champion Himiko. It was said to be 22 years old when it won and 83 cm. Bred joinly by Toshio and his older brother Toshiyuki Sakai and owned by Shinji Matsumoto.

the 1993, 25th AJS GC was " Dainichi Zakura" owned by Matumoto-san, then the 1994, 26th AJS GC was " Himiko" owned by Yoshikaie-san.

[mstrseed]

Here are 3 pictures of Brett's oldest Koi........................from today