Buying a few new koi to breed - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

koimystic · 10-16-2005

I am going to buy a few new koi to breed next year or the year after that. What types do you suggest? I want about 1 female and 2 or 3 males. What do you suggest for the female? An ogon? and males - kohaku, another ogon, and ??? ? What do you suggest? Thanks

Robert · 11-19-2005

the thing you need to know is what and where the fish came from. What I would and try to do is if Im trying to get ogons I use ogons if I want kohakus I use kohakus. The thing you need to do is pick a fish you like and get a pair of them. If you can get good ones it will help you get good fri, mutts will have mutts.

dick benbow · 11-22-2005

aS SUGGESTED, YOU SHOULD STICK WITH KIND TO KIND.

OTHERWISE YOU WILL HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME KNOWING WHAT YOUR SEEING AS BABIES FOR THE CULLING PROCESS.

i SUGGEST YOU START WITH BETTER PARENTS AND GET ONE FEMALE AND ONE MALE. IF YOU HAVE XYZ TO SPEND AND YOU BUY SEVERAL MALES, YOU'LL NOT NECESSARILY GET A BETTER ONE AND IF YOU DO HOW WILL YOU KNOW WHICH
ONE GENETICALLY LED TO YOUR SUCESS?

i'M NOT SURE YOU WANT TO BUY 2 OF A KIND FROM ONE SUPPLIER AS THEY COULD VERY WELL BE BROTHER/SISTER.

HERE'S A SUGGESTION- BUY A MALE gIN RIN AND A FEMALE REGULAR SCALE (WAGOI) THE GENETICS WILL BE JUST DIFFERENT ENOUGH AND YOU WILL GET
BOTH gr AND WAGOI BABIES.

iF YOU DECIDE ON OGON REMEMBER THEY HAVE SEVERAL FLAWS TO LOOK OUT FOR IN PARENTS AND BABIES...SMALLER PECS...SHORTER BODIES (MINIMUM OF 4 1/2 HEADS IN TOTAL LENGTH) AND IN BRIGHT SUNSHINE LOOK FOR THE HIKARI -BRIGHT SHEEN

Tom C · 12-11-2005

If you're planning on selling the koi, breed what sells in your area. Some people have a real hard time selling gosankes in some areas. I know this is going to up-set some people, but if you're in a area that has a lot of water garden people breed longfins. I can sell 5 longfins to every regular koi in my area. It all comes down to what your looking to do with the koi you breed.

Lee-Ann Nel · 12-20-2005

I tend to agree with Tom C, if you are looking at breeding for selling purposes breed what sells, this way you can buy "the" parents much faster. We breed a big variety of koi, from the Gosanke right through to Ghosts. Unless your customer knows his way around koi the Ghosts in a selling pond will definetely go first?

Should you be breeding for personal use, go with the variety YOU like.

Regards

Lee-Ann

chriskoi · 01-19-2006

Hi Lee Ann
You are 100% in target .But I still think it is a factor of blood lines and to wicth Church the breeder belongs . But its sometimes fun to see what comes alight.
Regards
Chriskoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee-Ann Nel

I tend to agree with Tom C, if you are looking at breeding for selling purposes breed what sells, this way you can buy "the" parents much faster. We breed a big variety of koi, from the Gosanke right through to Ghosts. Unless your customer knows his way around koi the Ghosts in a selling pond will definetely go first?

Should you be breeding for personal use, go with the variety YOU like.

Regards

Lee-Ann

junglegeorge12 · 01-19-2006

I have to disagree with tomc and leeann on that subject, respectfully. If you want to be a serious breeder you cannot do it if you are branded as a junk artist who mixes and breeds anything for a buck. Even pet stores want to feel like they are giving their customers a cut above their competitors for the same price as junk dealers. Most of them would enjoy showing their customer the difference between good bloodlines and junk, and be proud to do it.

You want to be branded as a passionate artist or business person, in a niche area you truly are passionate about. People need to know you care about what you are selling them. Chuppa can be sold easily to local shops and distributors, since there is always a market in pet stores, and if you target locally you reduce their shipping costs and thus improve their profits and reduce risk of losses or color degradation from shipping stress. If you can find a tropicals breeder in your area who does tropicals, most of the time they ship varieties and quantities and operate as distributors as well. Most of them are more than happy to have someone else provide their koi, since koi take up so much water space and food money from them. They can then use their gallonage for higher profit margin things like discus, cichlids, and other fancy tropicals.

If you are smart you can get their total price down, and your profit up higher than those who have to ship over long distances to those markets. Having good dna is an important part of that. You do not have to start with million dollar parents, you can buy decent quality from really good bloodlines and build up from there.

One of the things I hope to do in the future is set up some demos in local pet stores with a small tank of low grade, one of medium grade, and then one of Momotaro koi. To educate and help people understand value. I gaurantee nine out of ten people will buy from the Momotaro or medium tank. You have to understand how people think, everyone wants the best they can possibly get. I want to see how the markets and store owners respond to that.

Once people can look at the larger ones and see the difference they will understand the value difference. If all they see is junk with no expalanations they have no clue. Education is the key to getting folks to buy higher end koi, not reducing our quality to get money to buy trophy parents. Say we have the trophy parents but only know how to sell junk, what then????

chriskoi · 01-19-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by koimystic

I am going to buy a few new koi to breed next year or the year after that. What types do you suggest? I want about 1 female and 2 or 3 males. What do you suggest for the female? An ogon? and males - kohaku, another ogon, and ??? ? What do you suggest? Thanks

Hi Koimystic
My name is Chris du Plessis and a breeder of nishikigoi in South Africa.
And like to help you where I can, so if you whant to do breed with koi you must first decide the variety and then you must look for good blood lines,and you must not try and mix difirant veriety's it will always come to a disaster.
You will see that it will take years to get the right pair of parents.Specialy with kohaku's see if you get them with good HI and the white is also important but the most important aspect is the body shape and look at their head matching with the body it's very important.You will see with in a three weeks the fry showing if you was sucsessful or not and the most of the fry will be completely covert with HI and that means that the parents did not match and you must look for another male or female .And thats the same with the other veriety's and you must keep on trying it will payoff one day and thats the fun of it. If you need more exsplination please let me here from you and I will help you where it is posible.
Regards
Chriskoi

lildude · 03-28-2006

Marshall, start out with Yamabuki ogons, and as years progress, you can go to other varieties. Yamabuki ogons almost always sell, and they give a chance to you to Learn how to care for koi fry, and the only defect in this Variety would be physical defects.

O and chriskoi,

I am going to south africa on OCTOBER 1, 2007.

Hope to maybe see you.

luke frisbee · 03-29-2006

I hope I am not too late...doitsu metallics with ginrin longfins will give you the best of everything in the fry

10-16-2005	#1 (permalink)
koimystic Tosai Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: High Point, NC Posts: 26	Buying a few new koi to breed I am going to buy a few new koi to breed next year or the year after that. What types do you suggest? I want about 1 female and 2 or 3 males. What do you suggest for the female? An ogon? and males - kohaku, another ogon, and ??? ? What do you suggest? Thanks

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11-19-2005	#2 (permalink)
Robert Fry Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5	the thing you need to know is what and where the fish came from. What I would and try to do is if Im trying to get ogons I use ogons if I want kohakus I use kohakus. The thing you need to do is pick a fish you like and get a pair of them. If you can get good ones it will help you get good fri, mutts will have mutts.

11-22-2005	#3 (permalink)
dick benbow Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 4,172	aS SUGGESTED, YOU SHOULD STICK WITH KIND TO KIND. OTHERWISE YOU WILL HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME KNOWING WHAT YOUR SEEING AS BABIES FOR THE CULLING PROCESS. i SUGGEST YOU START WITH BETTER PARENTS AND GET ONE FEMALE AND ONE MALE. IF YOU HAVE XYZ TO SPEND AND YOU BUY SEVERAL MALES, YOU'LL NOT NECESSARILY GET A BETTER ONE AND IF YOU DO HOW WILL YOU KNOW WHICH ONE GENETICALLY LED TO YOUR SUCESS? i'M NOT SURE YOU WANT TO BUY 2 OF A KIND FROM ONE SUPPLIER AS THEY COULD VERY WELL BE BROTHER/SISTER. HERE'S A SUGGESTION- BUY A MALE gIN RIN AND A FEMALE REGULAR SCALE (WAGOI) THE GENETICS WILL BE JUST DIFFERENT ENOUGH AND YOU WILL GET BOTH gr AND WAGOI BABIES. iF YOU DECIDE ON OGON REMEMBER THEY HAVE SEVERAL FLAWS TO LOOK OUT FOR IN PARENTS AND BABIES...SMALLER PECS...SHORTER BODIES (MINIMUM OF 4 1/2 HEADS IN TOTAL LENGTH) AND IN BRIGHT SUNSHINE LOOK FOR THE HIKARI -BRIGHT SHEEN

12-11-2005	#4 (permalink)
Tom C Jumbo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 715	If you're planning on selling the koi, breed what sells in your area. Some people have a real hard time selling gosankes in some areas. I know this is going to up-set some people, but if you're in a area that has a lot of water garden people breed longfins. I can sell 5 longfins to every regular koi in my area. It all comes down to what your looking to do with the koi you breed.

12-20-2005	#5 (permalink)
Lee-Ann Nel Fry Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1	I tend to agree with Tom C, if you are looking at breeding for selling purposes breed what sells, this way you can buy "the" parents much faster. We breed a big variety of koi, from the Gosanke right through to Ghosts. Unless your customer knows his way around koi the Ghosts in a selling pond will definetely go first? Should you be breeding for personal use, go with the variety YOU like. Regards Lee-Ann

01-19-2006	#7 (permalink)
junglegeorge12 Oyagoi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 1,228	I have to disagree with tomc and leeann on that subject, respectfully. If you want to be a serious breeder you cannot do it if you are branded as a junk artist who mixes and breeds anything for a buck. Even pet stores want to feel like they are giving their customers a cut above their competitors for the same price as junk dealers. Most of them would enjoy showing their customer the difference between good bloodlines and junk, and be proud to do it. You want to be branded as a passionate artist or business person, in a niche area you truly are passionate about. People need to know you care about what you are selling them. Chuppa can be sold easily to local shops and distributors, since there is always a market in pet stores, and if you target locally you reduce their shipping costs and thus improve their profits and reduce risk of losses or color degradation from shipping stress. If you can find a tropicals breeder in your area who does tropicals, most of the time they ship varieties and quantities and operate as distributors as well. Most of them are more than happy to have someone else provide their koi, since koi take up so much water space and food money from them. They can then use their gallonage for higher profit margin things like discus, cichlids, and other fancy tropicals. If you are smart you can get their total price down, and your profit up higher than those who have to ship over long distances to those markets. Having good dna is an important part of that. You do not have to start with million dollar parents, you can buy decent quality from really good bloodlines and build up from there. One of the things I hope to do in the future is set up some demos in local pet stores with a small tank of low grade, one of medium grade, and then one of Momotaro koi. To educate and help people understand value. I gaurantee nine out of ten people will buy from the Momotaro or medium tank. You have to understand how people think, everyone wants the best they can possibly get. I want to see how the markets and store owners respond to that. Once people can look at the larger ones and see the difference they will understand the value difference. If all they see is junk with no expalanations they have no clue. Education is the key to getting folks to buy higher end koi, not reducing our quality to get money to buy trophy parents. Say we have the trophy parents but only know how to sell junk, what then????

03-28-2006	#9 (permalink)
lildude Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay Area, and Placerville Posts: 1,079	Marshall, start out with Yamabuki ogons, and as years progress, you can go to other varieties. Yamabuki ogons almost always sell, and they give a chance to you to Learn how to care for koi fry, and the only defect in this Variety would be physical defects. O and chriskoi, I am going to south africa on OCTOBER 1, 2007. Hope to maybe see you.

03-29-2006	#10 (permalink)
luke frisbee Oyagoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,451	I hope I am not too late...doitsu metallics with ginrin longfins will give you the best of everything in the fry