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Thread: Shallow Ponds and Jumbo Koi

  1. #21
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcuss View Post
    Maybe I'm blind... But I don't see shoddy workmanship here...

    I see something I'd be proud of. And with the steel bars running horizontally, and past practice (same type of pond, same build, 17 years old with no problems....) I'd say the construction is sound.

    As for deeper is better? I think I'd have to agree. I'm just lucky enough to live where there is no problem with water supply and I need the depth for temp stability. I don't imagine they see the kind of temp. swings I have to live with here...

    Grant
    Nice pond, huh Grant?! Golly, I wouldn't mind having one like that....except mine would have to be at least 8' deep d/t the wonderful temperate Pacific Northwest weather.

    Grant, when are you going to build your indoor ~ 3K gal pond? Just make sure to post pixs when you start the construction. I have an indoor 1,500 gal QT tank that I am currently using for my tosai growout. Even at that volume, I see very good growth from the showa tosai.

  2. #22
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    That won't take long...there is less to pick every day.



    In order to achieve good water quality you have to turnover the water through the filters fast enough so that that you created (by the amount of food you feeding and the stock level) is being handled. I would arge that it is the load...not the water volume that drives the need for a given turn over rate. The big negative in faster turnover rates is usally the power consumption for more/larger water pumps.



    When we launched our pond we had Dr. David Knox (for those that know him) at the event. Standing in front of him a woman asked how deep the pond was. I said it was 8'. She said it would be difficult with such depth, but she was willing to help us build PVC plant stands. I though Dr. Knox would choke as he quickly put his hand over his mouth and walked away. I had to thank her and tell her it was 8" because the backhoe we could fit into the yard would only reach down 6'. So I had to settle for 8' (2'up and 6' down. She never did get it that this was a koi pond. IMHO the only negative about pond depth is that you do need to be able to net the fish. There will be a combination of width and depth where even the longest pond net handles are too short. Summary...would build an 8' to 3m deep pond again in a heartbeat!
    Hahaha!! PVC plant stands! That's pretty funny! Thanks Mike. Your points duly noted.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    I asked who buys these 5million yen Nisai and was told mostly Asian customers so you can bet that their ponds are some of the best. What was being shown was a 3ft pond. Just as long as a new person to the hobby does not get the wrong idea and does it and especially in Canada. Because of 3ft ponds most people will once again loose all their fish this winter and aquascape does a roaring business. We could easily send the wrong message. Not even state of the art 8ft deep ponds are completely
    the ideal other than finishing koi by nature a mud pond is the ideal for the other six months
    Regards
    Eugene
    Good points Eugene. We definitely don't want newbees to read this thread and think that 3' is a good depth, especially if they live in Canada or colder regions. I just think that it's interesting that there are more than one way to raise koi to jumbo proportions.

  4. #24
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcuss View Post
    Hi Lam,

    Ditto Oxygenation Box - DOB

    You can google it all day and find nothing... ( I tried ) But here's what I managed to get from my efforts.

    Here's a picture of it. And from my understanding, it uses cavitation nozzles internally and potentially drives the O2 to saturation (and beyond according to claims made by the manufacturer)

    Interesting stuff. It's a different education reading what they use in totally different climates to overcome their geographical restrictions.

    Grant
    Thanks for the info Grant. Rumor has it that it's pretty expensive. Still, it would be nice to have something like that if it fully saturates pond w/ O2.

    I don't know if you notice, but both of David's ponds just utilizes the conventional up and downflow filtration design with just Jmats. I don't see any Nexuses or Bakki Showers or trickle towers or sand filters or fluidized bed media. Kinda interesting. It will be interesting to see what this Ditto Oxygenation Box has to offer.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    I asked who buys these 5million yen Nisai and was told mostly Asian customers so you can bet that their ponds are some of the best. What was being shown was a 3ft pond. Just as long as a new person to the hobby does not get the wrong idea and does it and especially in Canada. Because of 3ft ponds most people will once again loose all their fish this winter and aquascape does a roaring business. We could easily send the wrong message. Not even state of the art 8ft deep ponds are completely
    the ideal other than finishing koi by nature a mud pond is the ideal for the other six months
    Regards
    Eugene
    Learning is the name of the game. Koi is not a thing for 3'ft pond in Kitchener Ontario. If you truely want it there, you learn (or find) ways to keep them a live while still be able to appreciate them. From what described and shown, they have done a great job in those 3' ponds. the workmanship is pretty good, and I know the cost is very reasonable too. (I visited SE Asia enough to say this)

    When come to material, people in SE Asia have the skill to squeeze the total potential out of them.

    Finally, if the end result is very good, and you can't beat them, why are you having hardtime giving them the due respect ?

    stan

  6. #26
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saratogatan View Post
    Learning is the name of the game. Koi is not a thing for 3'ft pond in Kitchener Ontario. If you truely want it there, you learn (or find) ways to keep them a live while still be able to appreciate them. From what described and shown, they have done a great job in those 3' ponds. the workmanship is pretty good, and I know the cost is very reasonable too. (I visited SE Asia enough to say this)

    When come to material, people in SE Asia have the skill to squeeze the total potential out of them.

    Finally, if the end result is very good, and you can't beat them, why are you having hardtime giving them the due respect ?

    stan
    In order to have this 3ft pond a 20,000 gal per Hr circulation was used that is not useing skills to squeeze out potential. Neither is the cost very reasnable ,I called it more money than brains and not very efficient , You can bet that most ponds are 8ft deep that is for keeping high quality fish in SE Asia especially the people who spend millions of yen on a fish.
    Regards
    Eugene

  7. #27
    Sansai
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    Fellas, I hope discussions can be conducted with some dignity.

    David, has been keeping kois seriously for many years and has gone through the mill experimenting with kois kept in mud ponds, deep ponds( 6~7feet and up to 100 tons volume) he did not get the desired results and good show kois down the drain. So until now his best kois were kept in Japan.

    This new system that he has invested in gave him new hope in keeping very high quality kois in a tropical climate. The results he has achieved even had Kentaro Sakai stumped. He groomed a supposedly downhill koi in 6 months to take the GC at the All Indonesia Koi show! And mind you that show is no child's play.

    While he has deep pockets, he is no dimwit. He has since moved quite a few of his good kois back to Singapore. His main pond is a 3 foot pond of 40 tons and 25 pieces of shows kois 75cm ~ 90cm.

    This pond used to have a Bakki shower with Momotaro Bacteria house media and conventional filter. He still retains his conventional filter to house Matts but his new water recirculation systems is per attached picture.

    The Thais are also leading the way towards shallow and smaller ponds that are better managed. Yotti has a 360tons pond which he hardly use for his top kois anymore.

    Having said the above, a shallow pond is not for everyone. Only an idiot will adopt a 3foot pond design without shade and a chiller in 30~34 degree C temps nor can an average koi keeper afford to run a chiller. Likewise no one in his right mind will build an outdoor 3 foot pond in minus 20 Degrees C temps.

    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shallow Ponds and Jumbo Koi-cimg2548.jpg  

  8. #28
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwong View Post
    Fellas, I hope discussions can be conducted with some dignity.
    ...While he has deep pockets, he is no dimwit. He has since moved quite a few of his good kois back to Singapore. His main pond is a 3 foot pond of 40 tons and 25 pieces of shows kois 75cm ~ 90cm.
    ...
    Cheers
    With dignity and a bit more respect I hope It would serve anyone who has an opinion on the subject to acquaint themselves better with the track record of the one whom they criticize. The individual skill of any Koi keeper plays a much bigger factor than the physical pond. We can spend as much money as we wish, dig as deep, long, wide as humanly possible, and still not produce the kind of results we seek. The skill of the Koi keeper still reigns supreme at every step of the way.

  9. #29
    MCA
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    The skill of the Koi keeper still reigns supreme at every step of the way.
    spot on!

    The better the system design...the less work for the keeper. But an experienced keeper can make up for some less than ideal conditions. But a newbie has little chance to do so.

  10. #30
    ppp
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    For the slightly more open-minded, here is a short video of David's flagship pond which is 48 tons (one third of which is filter) and 3 feet deep. Most of these jumbos were raised in this pond.


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