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Thread: Please HELP our fish our JUMPING and their skin is turning pink!

  1. #1
    Nisai cricket's Avatar
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    Please HELP our fish our JUMPING and their skin is turning pink!

    Our koi pond is 12,000 gallons. We had some fish flashing. I do not have a microscope unfortunately. We decided to do potassium permanganate treatments. Day 1 - 12 tsp PP, turned our two bead filters to recirculate, took media out of waterfall and left waterfall running, as well as air. Water was loosing purple color after 4 hours. Added 18 oz of hydrogen peroxide and 16 tbsp or sodium thiosulfate over 2 hour period. Then did a major water change. Backwashed our filters and turned them back on to filter. Fish did not seem to be stressed.

    But we noticed the fish were starting to jump out of the water after the treatment and water change.

    Day 4 - 13 tsp PP, same procedure, water turned brown after 5 1/2 hours. Added 16 oz peroxide and 8 tbsp of sodium thiosulfate over 1 hour. Smaller water change after this treatment.

    After second treatment are fish were really jumping out of the water and flashing. Now on Day 6 their white skin has turned pink. They are all eating.

    On Day 5 I checked parameters, Ammonia 0, Nitrite .4, nitrate 55, PH 8, Total Alkalinity - 378.

    I am not sure what to do. Something is really bothering them. I do not know if I should do two more treatments of PP on Day 8 and Day 12. Should I change to Quick Cure?

    Has this happened to anyone?

  2. #2
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricket View Post
    Our koi pond is 12,000 gallons. We had some fish flashing. I do not have a microscope unfortunately. We decided to do potassium permanganate treatments. Day 1 - 12 tsp PP, turned our two bead filters to recirculate, took media out of waterfall and left waterfall running, as well as air. Water was loosing purple color after 4 hours. Added 18 oz of hydrogen peroxide and 16 tbsp or sodium thiosulfate over 2 hour period. Then did a major water change. Backwashed our filters and turned them back on to filter. Fish did not seem to be stressed.

    But we noticed the fish were starting to jump out of the water after the treatment and water change.

    Day 4 - 13 tsp PP, same procedure, water turned brown after 5 1/2 hours. Added 16 oz peroxide and 8 tbsp of sodium thiosulfate over 1 hour. Smaller water change after this treatment.

    After second treatment are fish were really jumping out of the water and flashing. Now on Day 6 their white skin has turned pink. They are all eating.

    On Day 5 I checked parameters, Ammonia 0, Nitrite .4, nitrate 55, PH 8, Total Alkalinity - 378.

    I am not sure what to do. Something is really bothering them. I do not know if I should do two more treatments of PP on Day 8 and Day 12. Should I change to Quick Cure?

    Has this happened to anyone?

    Stop the PP treatments.

    You really need to scrape and scope to see what you're dealing with rather than bombarding your fish with chemicals.

    Have you bowled anyone up to look closely at them? What do the fins look like? Mouths? etc...

    You said on day 5 you checked your parameters... What were they on day one when you noticed a problem?

    Any new fish added lately?

    Why is there nitrite in your water? Is this normal?

    Has your pH changed drastically? what was it last week?

    Probably going to need some more info... how many fish (rough size), how old is the pond, size of filters, temp. of water, type of pond etc...

    Anyway, a bit more info, and you might want to contact someone close by that can come over with a microscope. Shotgun treatments are never a good answer...

    Best wishes,

    Grant

  3. #3
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    Sorry, I have yet to figure out why you decided to PP the pond. Without confirm costia or other....it would be safer to go Proform C (with prazi on the third day).

    A big problem with dosing with PP is that without having an reasonably calibrated ORP meter, you do not know the impact from the PP. If the water was very clean...you can over dose.....if the pond water was dirty...you can under dose. I would never dose PP from a simple ppm formula. You have no way to know the impact.

    Once you want to stop PP...just use ST. If you use peroxide you could take the ORP from a high level (400-500mV) within minutes with peroxide. That is way too much stress on the fish.

    What you need to do is....first get a KHA or other knowledgeable person with a scope to come over and scrape/scope the fish. Second use the money for those chemicals towards getting a scope. You can get a very nice one from www.sonlight.com for around $220. Put it on your birthday/Christmas list.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  4. #4
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I agree with Michael. Never dump chemicals into the pond without knowing what you're treating for.

    Can you do a water change to get some of that stuff out of the pond? Also, add some air if you can.

    What was your pH before you started?

    Be sure to keep the pond tightly covered till they settle down so they don't end up in the yard.

    Nitrates build up from lack of water changes. That's the only way to lower/remove them.

    Once you get the chemicals out of the pond, a little salt will help.

    Try to get us the info Grant asked for.
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

  5. #5
    Fry
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    It sounds like a heavy parasitic infection. Do they also have clamped fins, swim rapidly back an forward or lean to one side ? Parasite infections can irritate the fish that much that by jumping they try to get rid of them.
    You will need to take a scrape and have a look on a microscope to see which sort of parasite they have. Thread them thereafter.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
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    Hydrogen peroxide will react with sodium thiosulfate, effectively destroying it through oxidization within minutes and turning it into sodium sulfate. I would think that the chemical reaction might indeed burn your fish.

    Do a HUGE water change and DO NOT use HP and ST together again. Whatever parasite your fish had, has probably been chemically incinerated by the PP and the "neutralization" with HP and ST.

  7. #7
    Jumbo RookieKoiGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangreaal View Post
    Hydrogen peroxide will react with sodium thiosulfate, effectively destroying it through oxidization within minutes and turning it into sodium sulfate. I would think that the chemical reaction might indeed burn your fish.

    Do a HUGE water change and DO NOT use HP and ST together again. Whatever parasite your fish had, has probably been chemically incinerated by the PP and the "neutralization" with HP and ST.

    Exactly- one or the other........I like the HP

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