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Thread: Dang ol' mango

  1. #241
    Sansai
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    Yeah, you could do that, buy do you really want too?
    Chlorox is cheap. Your eye is probably much better now......you could use this experience to really clean up your pond, lighten the bio load and amd only buy fish that you really want to grow on and be worthy of your pond.
    I think you do get a kick out of taking an award now and then.....and certainly don't think you would have spent all that time an energy on making such a massive project to not be able to show.

  2. #242
    Tategoi JanT's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Hi, Luke.
    Even tho I do not know you well, I want you to know I did read this entire thread over the last 24 hrs. I am so, so sorry this is happening to you; I can read between the lines of all your posts on koi forums and I know you care a great deal for your fish. And, in the end I think you should and will do the right things and continue this hobby.
    Might be a curious question, but I am wondering how many African cichlids you have in Lake Luke, how big, and what you will do with them now???

    Keep the faith.

  3. #243
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    What are the odds of having a double positive?

    I don't remember all the time frames but there is a period when testing comes back negative even if the fish has been exposed.

  4. #244
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    Childers I agree with you in some regard on all of it...but take what is happening to me and then find what is happening to others.. if Mine is isolated then No conclusion can be certain
    Luke,
    No one kind find anything unless you tell them to look. Have you contacted anyone at CFKS yet? Have you contacted all of the dealers you have purchased from at CFKS or even previously?

    So let's say that an investigation shows another person had an issue. What if that person did not QT nor test and also bought from multiple dealers? What conclusions could be drawn? None.

    Or......Some one bought from only only of the same dealers as you but did not have an issue?

    Or..... You and someone bought from the same dealer, both 3 years ago, and has an issue now?

    Or.......

    Or........

    Or.......


    Getting the picture yet? There are many variables that can not be answered in a 100% certainty unless QT and testing is performed which shows a positive at that point. It can then be traced backwards to a dealer, but then, not back anyfurther to a breeder if the dealer has dealt and mixed multiple breeder's koi.

    The course of action for CFKS (in my opinion) is to notify those that can be notified (dealers, purchasers, and exibitors, that a "possible" situation existed after the CFKS show that may, or may not have been related to purchases made at the show. The problem here is that dealers don't typically keep records of all of their purchasers.

    The variables are almost endless.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  5. #245
    Daihonmei
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    I understand your point,


    all rightie then
    i brought a koi to the show that won best Doitsu....i sold it to the lady that brought The Rainbow River Friendship Award. She took it out of my Show tank and took it home.
    I think her name was Pirddy or something like that...Seems like someone should know her...and tell her what I found in my pond.
    now the other part to this is...if that koi isn't carrying KHV then it adds more credence to me getting it at the Show from a Purchase.
    if that koi has KHV then in all probability I had it in my pond and it just "decided to" break when it did.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    I understand your point,


    all rightie then
    i brought a koi to the show that won best Doitsu....i sold it to the lady that brought The Rainbow River Friendship Award. She took it out of my Show tank and took it home.
    I think her name was Pirddy or something like that...Seems like someone should know her...and tell her what I found in my pond.
    now the other part to this is...if that koi isn't carrying KHV then it adds more credence to me getting it at the Show from a Purchase.
    if that koi has KHV then in all probability I had it in my pond and it just "decided to" break when it did.
    Luke,
    I will play devil's advocate once again with your above scenerio. "What if" it was an existing koi of yours that was not shedding until after the show? On the other hand, If that koi has an exposure and tests positive and IF it was not exposed to the new purchases does that guarantee that it wasn't one of the new purchases? It makes it more plausible, BUT there could still be an outside chance that that koi that you gave away still had a previous exposure and so could one of the new purchases, totally seperate from one another. Without QT and testing at the time just prior to introduction, there is no way to be really sure and even then, a koi could be a carrier (had an expsoure) from beyond the 12 to 18 month range (previous) and have low enough titers to still be negative when in actuality shed the virus once again at a later date.

    For almost every situation, there are "loop holes" so to speak in current knowledge and testing protocols in the process of back tracking a break out. That is why "finger pointing" so to speak could yield "false positives" as it relates to determining the source.

    The best protection (but still not fool proof) is QT (seperate for each dealer purchase) and blood serum testing. If positive during this period, you then know that it came from the dealer to you in that condition and you also protect the rest of your collection.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  7. #247
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Luke,
    No one kind find anything unless you tell them to look. Have you contacted anyone at CFKS yet? Have you contacted all of the dealers you have purchased from at CFKS or even previously?

    So let's say that an investigation shows another person had an issue. What if that person did not QT nor test and also bought from multiple dealers? What conclusions could be drawn? None.

    Or......Some one bought from only only of the same dealers as you but did not have an issue?

    Or..... You and someone bought from the same dealer, both 3 years ago, and has an issue now?

    Or.......

    Or........

    Or.......


    Getting the picture yet? There are many variables that can not be answered in a 100% certainty unless QT and testing is performed which shows a positive at that point. It can then be traced backwards to a dealer, but then, not back anyfurther to a breeder if the dealer has dealt and mixed multiple breeder's koi.

    The course of action for CFKS (in my opinion) is to notify those that can be notified (dealers, purchasers, and exibitors, that a "possible" situation existed after the CFKS show that may, or may not have been related to purchases made at the show. The problem here is that dealers don't typically keep records of all of their purchasers.

    The variables are almost endless.

    Steve
    The CFKS leadership is aware of Luke's situation, and aware of the sources of the koi he acquired at the show. I asked Luke for the sources from which he purchased relatively early in the history of the 'Mango Thread'... prior to the finding of costia, prior to the treatment for costia, prior to the KHV test being performed. Since I am responsible for vendors at the show, I pay attention to any reports of health issues of any sort. I don't talk about it, but given the tenor of posts I've seen on various internet boards by well-intentioned people who are unaware of the facts, I thought it best to say this much.

    When KHV was confirmed, I informed other CFKS leaders of the sources.

    Thus far, I am NOT aware of an outbreak of KHV in any other pond. I am aware of instances of parasite problems. I am aware of several folks who acquired koi from one of the sources from which Luke purchased, and none have had serious problems. I am aware of a couple of people who acquired koi from the other source (as well as other sources). One had no health issues. Another had an apparent parasite incident. I will be staying in touch with them and anyone else I learn acquired koi from the source Luke suspects.

    Folks should keep in mind that in Central Florida most ponds reach the permissive temperature range for KHV in the March-April time frame. Since CFKS is held in the first half of March, it is to be expected that reports of KHV in the area will occur in the 6 weeks after the show. (Luke's situation is different, since his flow-through maintains permissive temperatures year-round.)

    And, that's about all I'll have to say on the matter until I know something.

  8. #248
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    I understand your point,


    all rightie then
    i brought a koi to the show that won best Doitsu....i sold it to the lady that brought The Rainbow River Friendship Award. She took it out of my Show tank and took it home.
    I think her name was Pirddy or something like that...Seems like someone should know her...and tell her what I found in my pond.
    now the other part to this is...if that koi isn't carrying KHV then it adds more credence to me getting it at the Show from a Purchase.
    if that koi has KHV then in all probability I had it in my pond and it just "decided to" break when it did.
    Luke,
    Have you contacted anyone of authority at CFKS yet? How would they know to even investigate if you do not tell them you have a problem and what the details are? You are relying at the "off chance" that they see this thread or that someone else does your duty in contacting them from what I can tell through your posts. Make the call(s).....PLEASE!

    Steve

    Edit: OK, cross posted with MikeM. Thanks Mike.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  9. #249
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The CFKS leadership is aware of Luke's situation, and aware of the sources of the koi he acquired at the show. I asked Luke for the sources from which he purchased relatively early in the history of the 'Mango Thread'... prior to the finding of costia, prior to the treatment for costia, prior to the KHV test being performed. Since I am responsible for vendors at the show, I pay attention to any reports of health issues of any sort. I don't talk about it, but given the tenor of posts I've seen on various internet boards by well-intentioned people who are unaware of the facts, I thought it best to say this much.

    When KHV was confirmed, I informed other CFKS leaders of the sources.

    Thus far, I am NOT aware of an outbreak of KHV in any other pond. I am aware of instances of parasite problems. I am aware of several folks who acquired koi from one of the sources from which Luke purchased, and none have had serious problems. I am aware of a couple of people who acquired koi from the other source (as well as other sources). One had no health issues. Another had an apparent parasite incident. I will be staying in touch with them and anyone else I learn acquired koi from the source Luke suspects.

    Folks should keep in mind that in Central Florida most ponds reach the permissive temperature range for KHV in the March-April time frame. Since CFKS is held in the first half of March, it is to be expected that reports of KHV in the area will occur in the 6 weeks after the show. (Luke's situation is different, since his flow-through maintains permissive temperatures year-round.)

    And, that's about all I'll have to say on the matter until I know something.

    MikeM
    this is good to hear...and i hope you keep posting updates in a timely manner so as to keep people from talking

  10. #250
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The CFKS leadership is aware of Luke's situation, and aware of the sources of the koi he acquired at the show. I asked Luke for the sources from which he purchased relatively early in the history of the 'Mango Thread'... prior to the finding of costia, prior to the treatment for costia, prior to the KHV test being performed. Since I am responsible for vendors at the show, I pay attention to any reports of health issues of any sort. I don't talk about it, but given the tenor of posts I've seen on various internet boards by well-intentioned people who are unaware of the facts, I thought it best to say this much.

    When KHV was confirmed, I informed other CFKS leaders of the sources.

    Thus far, I am NOT aware of an outbreak of KHV in any other pond. I am aware of instances of parasite problems. I am aware of several folks who acquired koi from one of the sources from which Luke purchased, and none have had serious problems. I am aware of a couple of people who acquired koi from the other source (as well as other sources). One had no health issues. Another had an apparent parasite incident. I will be staying in touch with them and anyone else I learn acquired koi from the source Luke suspects.

    Folks should keep in mind that in Central Florida most ponds reach the permissive temperature range for KHV in the March-April time frame. Since CFKS is held in the first half of March, it is to be expected that reports of KHV in the area will occur in the 6 weeks after the show. (Luke's situation is different, since his flow-through maintains permissive temperatures year-round.)

    And, that's about all I'll have to say on the matter until I know something.
    Mike,
    You make a very good point concerning permissive temperatures and regional seasonal temperatures. The six (or so) weeks following CFKS
    could reveal KHV not only from sales at CFKS but also any other sales since the regional water temps were last permissive and even beyond that for carriers. Then there are those in more northern climates where permissive temps won't be along for another month or so.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

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