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Thread: Dang ol' mango

  1. #41
    Daihonmei
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    This was The Matron of The Lake
    friendly and entertaining..and just a tad over 28 inches in death.
    She had a History and I enjoyed keeping her in the lake. She was not ugly. She was a GC to me. Everyone else was wrong, she was still tategoi...one day she was going to be a hi utsuri. She was getting more hi each month.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dang ol' mango-mango-poisoning-orange-peel-red-skin.jpg   Dang ol' mango-mango-poisoning-orange-peels-gills.jpg  

  2. #42
    Daihonmei
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    in better times
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dang ol' mango-dscn0870.jpg   Dang ol' mango-dscn0057.jpg  

  3. #43
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Is there any possibility of catching any fish? It’s hard to tell if the gill damage is from death or if you have major problems. Can you do a gill snip?

    If the damage is from the oil of the trees, all the fish should be affected and their gills should look similar.

    JMO, Luke, I really think you have more going on here than Mango trees. If the water was poisoned from the trees, you wouldn’t be losing a single fish here and there.

    You have free water, can you do a major water change over the next couple of days to see how the fish react?
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

  4. #44
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntry View Post
    Is there any possibility of catching any fish? It’s hard to tell if the gill damage is from death or if you have major problems. Can you do a gill snip?

    If the damage is from the oil of the trees, all the fish should be affected and their gills should look similar.

    JMO, Luke, I really think you have more going on here than Mango trees. If the water was poisoned from the trees, you wouldn’t be losing a single fish here and there.

    You have free water, can you do a major water change over the next couple of days to see how the fish react?
    I do not think the water is poisoned. i think that some of the fish are eating the mango flowers and stems and are irritating their gills.

    I just had a major high-up person in the fish medicine world look at the pics and was told that it is impossible to tell from the pics and the scenario i have given but that it is mostly likely Columnaris..a secondary infection.
    So the mango poisoning is still a probable player...i am going to salt the pond and treat for Columnaris

  5. #45
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Those gills are a train wreck. I can see it going any of several ways as to cause/effect, but whatever it turns out to be it sure is wreaking havoc on them. If it is flowers being eaten I can see how flushing the water across their gills as they chew could be doing the deed. Pretty much what you would expect as a gill equivalent of inhaling Poison Ivy smoke into your lungs.

  6. #46
    Nisai
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    Jmo

    Mango irritant causes stress and allows parasites to run wild. Get a seine net and a scope! Hope you get it under control.

  7. #47
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    This is not making a lot of sense, Luke. Forgive me as I 'think out loud' and scramble some thoughts.

    I know you got new fish a month ago, and I know you did not quarantine. But, I also know others who did not quarantine fish from the two sources from which I believe you acquired your koi and they have not experienced any problems. (That doesn't mean the new koi were not a source of a problem, of course.)

    The gills look awful for a fish that could not have been dead for very long. The idea of rotting gills as a secondary infection points to something else being primary. You've had water temps in the optimal range for months, so the koi should have the strength to fight off an infection. I think it is normal these days to start worrying about KHV, and if a mass die-off comes along we will all be worrying about that, but you have been observing peculiar behavior for so long that I'm thinking you'd already have a mass die-off if that was the issue. I am not seeing the sunken eyes associated with KHV, but the photos aren't real good either.

    So, what is 'primary'? I am thinking parasites you do not recognize when scoping. That leads me to recall the time when mine got Ich. The white spots so obvious on my tropicals were not visible at all. The scratching and flashing typical in small aquarium fish was not present. The fish just hovered, refused to eat and looked miserable. Is there someone nearby who is good at figuring out what they see under a scope? Get them to pay a visit.

    I have to say that despite all the rational reasons not to treat without identifying the pathogen first, if this continues I'd be very tempted to use ProForm C simply because it handles most microscopic parasites except flukes. With no flashing, it doesn't seem flukes are the issue. But, just in case it is the Mango trees, I'd do a major water change first.

  8. #48
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Mike, everything you just said has gone through my mind. I don't think it's KHV because there hasn't been a mass die off or even a lot of fish dying.

    From the looks of the gills, I was thinking Gill Flukes. That particular fish just posted has been dead for a while or so it appears by the swelling and discoloration so it may just be deterioration due to death.

    Proform C is a fairly forgiving chemical on the pond and fish. That would be my first choice and a great place to start without knowing what he's up against. The main problem is the size of the pond. There's too many fish to set up a QT so the only option is to drain down the pond to as low a level as the fish would still feel comfortable.

    If the gills on the live fish look anything like the one posted above, there's not much chance for them.

    Luke, since you really think it's the trees and you have free water, do a 75% water change. It can't hurt anything. If the fish respond then you know you're right and you're helping them out at the same time.

  9. #49
    Daihonmei
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    I did a 30% change today, along with the 2000-3000gph flow through. in a couple of days i get an almost complete water change with that much flow through so it is in all probability NOT in the water itself.

    And Orange peel was only dead for a couple of hours. she has always been "heavy" and was/is full of eggs.

    Colunaris is a "secondary-infection," correct? The first three fish to die did not have any outward signs of stress. i think the primary killer was the mangos. But now I am dealing with secondary infections on once healthier koi.

    Still just guessing. i'm gonna treat the columnaris next.

  10. #50
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    It is a bacterial infection but usually presents with white, fungus looking spots leading to ulcers.

    I had it in my aquarium 2 years ago. I fought it for almost a year and by accident, overdosed the tank with PP. It killed almost all the fish but it also killed the bacteria. ProForm would knock it back for 3 weeks and it would start all over again.

    I don't think that's your problem because my fish would be fine in the morning, I'd come home from work and they would be covered in "fungus" and dead in the morning. It killed very quickly.

    With all the Kichi that live around you, try to find someone who knows how to use the scope. If not and you can afford to do it, I'd start with ProForm C.

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