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Thread: Use 1 step Kohaku as breeding stock

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    Use 1 step Kohaku as breeding stock

    I never use a 1 step kohaku to breed kohaku before.

    But my question is, if i use a 1 step Kohaku to breed kohaku. Do you think all the off spring will be 1 step kohaku only?

    Is this worth a try?

    Thanks.




  2. #2
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    The pattern of the offspring will be random.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    to add furthur to what has been factually stated

    when you breed kohaku you get a little bit of everything. You cannot breed 3 steps together and think you might even get a timy bit more % of 3 steps.

    My favorite on this one is the question, if I breed tancho to tancho, I get tancho's right?

    gosh, if it were only that simple In most cases tancho is 2-3% of the average spawn. And when they're an inch long at 40 days and it's cull time you have to look close as the spot is very yellow and not all that big....

    the male has more to say about patterning than the female

    I encourage everyone to try and breed some koi....will make you appreciate what breeders have to do to produce them and your a lot more willing to pay when you see your results
    Dick Benbow

  4. #4
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    not only will they not all be one step, they won't even be all kohaku. You will get many that are pure white (undesirable) and many that are like wild carp.

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I'm going to add just a tiny bit of disagreement. Practically speaking, Tony and Dick are fundamentally correct about patterning being random, but not 100%. In particular combinations of parent koi there can be a tendency for certain pattern aspects to show up with greater frequency than in other pairings. For example, if having a red spot next to the left pectoral shows up in 1 out of 50,000 fry with most pairings, a particular parent set may produce that marking in one out of 5,000 fry. There are a couple of Japanese breeders who focus on producing Tancho. They use parent sets known to produce a higher proportion of Tancho than is typical. It may not be all that much higher, but if the typical is 2% Tancho, a pair that produces 4% Tancho doubles the breeder's opportunity to meet his goal. May not seem like much of a difference, but with 300,000 fry in a spawn, the numbers add up.

  6. #6
    Nisai Koicjl's Avatar
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    Breeding can be lots of hard work and lots of fun, especially if you are doing with few good friends. but you only doing as a hobby and may be once in a million you get lucky , but most of all I think it's a good way to learn.

    These are my own breed fish. The Sanke had won this year Baby Champion in Sandiego show and I was so proud.
    As My teacher said( Junichi san ) This fish was an accidental.
    Hope the inspiration work.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Use 1 step Kohaku as breeding stock-picture-007.jpg  

  7. #7
    Oyagoi gspotmc's Avatar
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    Chin,
    I hope you are gomma give me a sanke when you spawn the sanke the sanke that I gave you.
    Michael

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    patterns aren't genetically linked?
    Posh..then lets breed shiro muji that were from a kohaku spawn...
    the fry will 'lean" towards the parent patterns...just as MikeM said.

    And a males pattern is not expressed any greater than the female's. That bit of miswisdom comes from a lack of communication...
    When a breeder talks about the qualities that each parent brings to the spawning, he sees the quality of the females' femaleness..the female body and skin lustre and such...and the male is secondary...he can't show what he doesn't get a chance to express because his maleness doesn't allow the same body vonformation, lustre. or color...what he does have is a pattern that will come along into the fry (just as the females does) but it doesn't come into the fry in anything but a "leaning" towards his pattern as far as location percentage, kiwa, sashi and the like.

    And that's the truth.

  9. #9
    Tosai Koiboy23's Avatar
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    hmm i see intresseting so using that's probely why alot breeder use a Maruten kohaku as male parent to geth a Maruten pattern on some of the offspring. But what if you are breeding showa in think that the hardest fish to breed a black fish with a white and red pattern?

  10. #10
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Since we've been toying with home spawns for several years I'll go ahead and toss in my 2 cents.

    Dick is absolutely right about the most important thing. Breeding your own will GREATLY enhance your appreciation for what real Koi breeders do just to produce a small number of decent Koi.

    What is most important to bear in mind is the fact that Koi genetics are not nearly as predictable as domesticated mammals. If you breed 2 high quality german shepherds you absolutely will get 100% german shepherd puppies and a high percentage of them will be good. That is never the case with Koi.

    If you breed 2 high quality Kohaku you will get MAYBE 50% Kohaku offspring, most of which will be junk. If you cull well (tough for a rookie) you might keep 10% of the Kohaku to grow out beyond a few months. If you cull well again at that point 90% of them will get tossed leaving you with less than 1% of your original spawn.

    If you are persistent and do this year after year and apply lessons learned along the way you might get lucky enough to produce ONE baby champion along the way, but don't count on it It is a fun and educational exercise more than anything else and in my opinion well worth the effort. Humility is the #1 harvest you should expect
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

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