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Thread: Why would the new head of the AKCA KHA program say this statement...

  1. #11
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    AKCA as a non-profit organnization, an independent from any business entity. If that is the statement from the head of KHA program, she or she should resign.

    -- I, a member of more than one Associated AKCA koi clubs.

  2. #12
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinh View Post
    AKCA as a non-profit organnization, an independent from any business entity. If that is the statement from the head of KHA program, she or she should resign.

    -- I, a member of more than one Associated AKCA koi clubs.
    Dinh

    I could not agree with you more.....

    Further more, the transport paper reads like a commercial for ultimate. Since when did the AKCA endorse products? Oh I forgot on the top of there 67 page paper they state that the AKCA does not endorse there paper........ I wonder why?

    I am trying to remember back when the BDHP was just a dream of Spikes, I remember the AKCA board had Spike hire a marketing firm to get feed back from all the dealers to see if this program was even fesable... What is bothering me is I seem to remember that karen Pattist is into marketing, and I keep thinking that she is the person that kept calling Andy and Ken, this person was very persistent and would not quit hounding them till they answered her survey.

    I also recall Karen did some free lance work for Kodama, and also Carl Forse, and didnt she have some interest in a goldfish bussines or a test meter sales person. She seems to have had her hand in many cookie jars.

  3. #13
    Oyagoi mstrseed's Avatar
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    To me this is a clear statement of the ill gotten funds that have been ear marked for the KHV program to be squandered on a program for professionals not hobbyist.

    All the people who have given in good faith monies that have now been diverted into a practice the money was not intended to do!!!

    It is clear that the KHA program has taken another path for somebody's hidden agenda...........I for one will not donate any more money towards a program that the AKCA has NO BUSINESS in putting forth. Not to mention misleading donors that 100% of their money goes to KHV Reasearch!!!!!
    Koi Wrangler
    CKHPA

  4. #14
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrseed View Post
    To me this is a clear statement of the ill gotten funds that have been ear marked for the KHV program to be squandered on a program for professionals not hobbyist.

    All the people who have given in good faith monies that have now been diverted into a practice the money was not intended to do!!!

    It is clear that the KHA program has taken another path for somebody's hidden agenda...........I for one will not donate any more money towards a program that the AKCA has NO BUSINESS in putting forth. Not to mention misleading donors that 100% of their money goes to KHV Reasearch!!!!!
    Bill, my dear friend,

    Are you saying that AKCA KHA Program and AKCA KHV program are the same program or they are two different AKCA programs?

  5. #15
    Tosai
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  6. #16
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike Cover View Post
    I'm not here to argue but some of you may be interested in the attached information.

    Regards,
    Spike Cover
    Director, Project KHV
    How are you Spike? Not argue here either.

    However, you, as a Director of Project KHV, I would to know your view about this thread, especially, the statement from the head of the KHA program?

    --Dinh, a Project KHV Program Supporter

  7. #17
    Tosai
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    Last edited by Spike Cover; 04-20-2009 at 11:41 PM.

  8. #18
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Oh, Nancy, I think you are being too rough on the transport paper. It is a research paper by multiple authors, not an article for casual reading and not a publication of AKCA. There is some interesting info in it. I found the testing of the slime coat for stress indicators informative. It may simply confirm that koi are easily stressed by netting, but gives deeper insight on just how stressful it is and the impact on body functions. The emphasis on Ultimate does undercut the credibility somewhat, but it is made clear that this one product is the only one used in testing. Use of a generic term describing an ammonia binder with certain characteristics would have been better for maintaining an independent tone. But, full disclosure is made.

    Overall, it is the most thorough piece I have seen on transporting koi. For those wanting to study on the subject, it is a good start point with a fairly good bibliography of science-based articles for further inquiry. The recommendations in general are undoubtedly good ones, albeit not always practical. For example, placing koi to be transported to a show in a separate holding tank for about a week in advance is probably more appropriately targeted to commercial shippers and not something many hobbyists are likely to do. However, that does not mean it is not a good idea. Similarly, it is surely wise to use 3 rubberbands on each of the 3 bags of a triple-bagged koi to be really safe, although not many folks are going to use 9 rubberbands. Still, if that recommendation gets more folks to always use 2 rubberbands on a bag, it will save some fish.

    There are a couple of the recommendations that I find bothersome and would expect to generate debate. Cooling transport water to 45F, for example, may be theoretically perfect, but in practice I do not think it such a good idea for folks to attempt it. [As for my koi, in the past 6 years the lowest temp reached in my pond is 54F. I would never purposefully expose my koi to temps lower than they've ever known in order to transport them.] Salting the transport bag water to 0.3% is something I also would not do. In any event, I cannot visualize how one adheres to the recommendations that the koi be bagged directly from the floating tub in which the netted koi is placed, that the water in the transport bag be salted to 0.3% before the koi is placed in it, and that it is best that the transport water be freshly prepared. I hardly ever transport my koi, so I'm something of a fumbler as is. I think I'd cause more stress than I'd be relieving.

    In sum, I found it a thought-provoking research paper. I would not want a show newbie to read it prior to their first show. It might scare them off. An article highlighting key points discussed in the paper could be useful, although dealing with the debateable ones might be challenging.

  9. #19
    Daihonmei
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    well that's just not correct at all?! Slime production can originate from any one of many stimulations, the most common being chemical irritation and/or a physical 'breaking of the slime coat continum'. In that case, the alarm cells release chemcial signals and the mucous cells begin to work overtime. But there are so many alternative triggers that a black and white 'test' or statement is more than misleading. Just the action of moving koi from a salted environment to a non-salter or a chemically treated environment will effect slime production.
    Today,'Koi Medicine' is part science, part misapplication of science and part politics/business interests. Sorting out the facts of this 'science' then, is truly an art. There is No substitute for experience as that helps sort out the enthusiastic concepts du jour from the actual root causes.

    As for the statement that fish should not be bought from anyone who has not buckled under to the programs of a few, This is "Obamaism" at it's worst. Progressives will always feel that they know best and are put on this earth to tell the greater culture how to live, think and act. This is a mistake. And as being demonstrated here, creates disharmony.
    In this hobby, there needs to be a common goal in the minds of dealers and hobbyists. If that is adopted both will prosper. If we begin to annoint favored dealers over other dealers, we begin to tear down that common goal. Bad idea IMHO. JR

  10. #20
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    I believe both KHA and KHV were created for good reasons and were good for the hobby inlcuding hobbyists, dealers and breeders. I hope they are not going to be the "un-independent business like" program.

    Do not know the KHA director personally and do not know how well she does as a KHA director. But having a Director of a National Non-proft porgam that willing to pursue that idea, which indicating a very poor leadership for this program. Not only that, it put a dirty mark in the face of a great program.

    If it is a mistake or an error, fix it. Not to protect the error.
    Last edited by dinh; 04-17-2009 at 11:40 AM.

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