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Thread: KHA, letter

  1. #11
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    You may also be aware that some KHAs have been seen by the board to be disloyal to AKCA for voicing criticisms of the AKCA, its committees, or its personnel. Both Spike and I have steadfastly insisted that criticism is a vital right of individuals, and so long as it is constructive, it can be a powerful force for change and improvement.

    Karen


    I would like everyone of the members of bito, to read it and voice there opinions on the part that states Karen and Spike have the backs of all the KHA's that are disloyal to the AKCA[/quote]

    Nancy



    I don't see Karen saying they have the "backs" of all the KHA's that are disloyal . And did you leave off the word "constructive" from Karens letter on purpose when you asked for our opinions ?

    Looks like a little Twisting to me , Have Fun .

  2. #12
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    You may also be aware that some KHAs have been seen by the board to be disloyal to AKCA for voicing criticisms of the AKCA, its committees, or its personnel. Both Spike and I have steadfastly insisted that criticism is a vital right of individuals, and so long as it is constructive, it can be a powerful force for change and improvement.

    Karen


    I would like everyone of the members of bito, to read it and voice there opinions on the part that states Karen and Spike have the backs of all the KHA's that are disloyal to the AKCA
    Nancy



    I don't see Karen saying they have the "backs" of all the KHA's that are disloyal . And did you leave off the word "constructive" from Karens letter on purpose when you asked for our opinions ?

    Looks like a little Twisting to me , Have Fun .[/quote]

    Hi Troy

    I thought we were going to see you in San Diego, I had heard you were applying to be a candidate judge, guess I heard wrong.

    As for twisting, now that is a joke, I did NOT change any of her Letter. My statement and question was based on my opinion...

    But I guess the KHA's that tell Hobbyist on another board, to boycott koi USA mag, are all loyal and that is constructive....

  3. #13
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    "You may also be aware that some KHAs have been seen by the board to be disloyal to AKCA for voicing criticisms of the AKCA, its committees, or its personnel. Both Spike and I have steadfastly insisted that criticism is a vital right of individuals, and so long as it is constructive, it can be a powerful force for change and improvement."

    Troy....I read this the same way Nancy does. It looks like Karen is saying that she supports your right to go on the boards and talk crap about AKCA, it's committees and it's personal and she and Spike are OK with it.

    I also feel like you have the right to voice criticisms, but those criticisms should be within the walls of the KHA board, not the general public. Also it seems to me that a KHA (as a member of an AKCA group) should have some sort of loyalty to the AKCA and not align themselves with the one individual in this hobby who has make it some sort of goal in life to tear the AKCA apart.

  4. #14
    Daihonmei
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    I think it has been made pretty clear that this AKCA sponsored and AKCA approved program has become something other than what it was envisioned to be. And I know how that is, having been at the helm of many a committee and organization in my time. None of us want others meddling in our work and good intentions as who would know better than the one making the decisions 'on the ground'?
    But modern business, charitable and non profit organizations are divided into management and a board of directors. The management runs things day to day. But a board of directors oversees the direction of things long term. This creates a series of checks and balances. And as frustrating as this may be to management, it is the reality of things.
    It is the board who is ultimately responsible for things. And they have the right and obligation to protect the business-- even from it's own management. We see this being played out now in many of our banks, car companies and insurance companies. Enron, Tyco, Bank of America etc are all examples of things going wrong on the management level. And in some cases, with the boards blindly going along with management.

    So we can forgive our koi health care management for protecting their baby, it's only natural. Still, transparency is key here. And more important than personal egos and agendas. This is not micro managing as some might feel. This is a serious thing. The public needs to know how KHV donations were spent. It is unfortunate that this might be embarrassing for a few of us , but it is the right thing to do. If funds were mis-assigned to other committee purposes via rationalization and inner circle decision making, we need to know that so that it can be corrected from this point on. If the board was aware or unaware of certain spending that needs to come to light. And if the KHA population, rogue or not, dealer's employees or not, are under the assumption that the AKCA board approved a motion to self insure all KHA actions as long as they got a waiver signed and acted within the Vet laws of their state, they are entitled to know where they now stand. Fiduciary responsibility is a heavy burden. But it is a real responsibility when we take people's money and act on their behalf. Entire educational disciplines exist around the legal and moral responsibility of allocating other's funds. This is not like a corporation culture where feudal kingdoms are created and funding is co-opted as spongeable at that level. This is more like the spending of public monies and therein lies the difference. Just some thoughts to helpfully clear the air of simpler arguments and individual witch hunting. IMHO, JR

  5. #15
    Daihonmei
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    Sorry I'm so chatty this morning----

    When an AKCA judge is chosen, there is an attempt to avoid a political appointment. However, the person who is chosen is considered based on they work the have already done within their AKCA affiliated club and also how they will be viewed as a representative of the association. The club president must put the person's name forward and they need the general support of the membership. In ZNA it is the same.

    I have found it very disturbing that KHAs as a group see no real affiliation to AKCA or the AKCA Magazine? This seems outright bazaar to me? I mean, this is the organization that trained them, funded their training and gave them their certification!??? Rude and classless comes to mind but that is not productive-- You will always have a few in any group that turn bitter and rogue. But for a cliché to form of disgruntled members is suspicious. It makes me wonder about management. Is THEIR heart in the right place? Indeed, do they just look the other way or have they created a culture of malcontent? I think the wagon moves forward best when every one pulls in the same direction. IMHO , JR

  6. #16
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Sorry I'm so chatty this morning----

    When an AKCA judge is chosen, there is an attempt to avoid a political appointment. However, the person who is chosen is considered based on the work the have already done within their AKCA affiliated club and also how they will be viewed as a representative of the association. The club president must put the persons name forward and they need the general support of the membership. In ZNA it is the same.

    I have found it very disturbing that KHAs as a group see no real affiliation to AKCA or the AKCA Magazine? This seems outright bazaar to me? I mean, this is the organization that trained them, funded their training and gave them their certification!??? Rude and classless comes to mind but that is not productive-- You will always have a few in any group that turn bitter and rogue. But for a cliché to form of disgruntled members is suspicious. It makes me wonder about management. Is THEIR heart in the right place? Indeed, do they just look the other way or have they created a culture of malcontent? I think the wagon moves forward best when every one pulls in the same direction. IMHO , JR
    JR, just so you know, I disloyalty applies only to a part of the group, not the entire group. I do know there are quite a few of them who have no loyalty to the AKCA. But I also know that there are still quite a few of us who are completly loyal to the AKCA even if it means sacrificing the KHA program which I am a member of. The survival of the AKCA program is more important than the small section of the AKCA, the KHA program. I just sent my letter to the board of directors of the AKCA to let them know how I feel about all of this. The AKCA puts it's self at financial risk by insuring KHAs. I would not want to see any policies or practices in place that could jeopardize the AKCA.

  7. #17
    Daihonmei
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    I don't think you should be too concerned about that Carolina G. The AKCA has been an American Institution since the mid 1970s and the health program is just a notion of current interest within the AKCA structure. But it does seem like the tail is wagging the dog when we discuss this sometimes odd culture growing within AKCA? But a cancer? No, more like a skin tag. They are all our fellow members. Just some seem not to have been introduced to the greater system in a proper way and seem somewhat disfunctional in their , 'family affiliation'. This subculture just needs to rein itself in. Hopefully this will be done from the top down as at the local level there seems to be a hopeless 'hard crust' that sees this as their 'good fight' to the bitter end. IMHO, JR

  8. #18
    Sansai
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    While not the same, insurance for my inventory of Koi runs about 1/3 of the retail value per year. That is the cost of insuring livestock spread over a large segment of other businesses that are in the same business.

    And while it might not transfer over correctly to your situation, your liability insurance could run as high or more than 1/3 the retail value of the most expensive collection of fish you might be exposed to per year. Notice I said possible exposure to, not collections you might actually visit.

    Self insurance for KHA's is not affordable for the vast majority if people. because they are insuring against liability potential, and the potential is very very great for some loss, or even catastrophic loss that could be in the tens if not hundreds of thousands or more. And that is just against the loss of the fish, not even to cover the legal liability should you step across the line.

    And if you think about it, why would there even be talk about self insuring, if the costs were not too high in the first place. And from the discussions I heard, that would have been a large group policy, one that would be much cheaper than what you or I could buy.

    d

  9. #19
    Daihonmei
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    "self Insurance" means that the organization will insure it's members from it's own funds, not that it will buy a special open worded insurance policy from an insurance company. This means a guarantee is made by the board to the management that it's volunteers will be ' insured' under certain terms from AKCA's assets and general funds/savings. There is no cost to this as there is no insurance premium, just a commitment that the association will defend all KHA's activities nationally as AKCA agents as long as they get a waiver signed ( These hard copy signed waivers are likely on file with KHA management as it would be insane not to have this done) and are within the laws defining vet services in their individual states. If you think about the extent of this liability you can appreciate the reasons for concern. This is not an attempt to rain on KHAs parade of having fun, but rather a real practical matter of potential risk management in this litigious world we find ourselves in. JR

  10. #20
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy M. View Post
    Email addresses for the entire AKCA Board of Directors, in case anyone would like to voice their opinions to the board directly..

    [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
    Is it a list of current AKCA Board of Directors? Does AKCA link www.akca.org lists it somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    .......

    But modern business, charitable and non profit organizations are divided into management and a board of directors. The management runs things day to day. But a board of directors oversees the direction of things long term. This creates a series of checks and balances. And as frustrating as this may be to management, it is the reality of things. .......
    Do you think AKCA follows the mentioned modern business for checks & balances?

    --D

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