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Thread: KHA, letter

  1. #21
    Oyagoi mstrseed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Sorry I'm so chatty this morning----


    I have found it very disturbing that KHAs as a group see no real affiliation to AKCA or the AKCA Magazine? This seems outright bazaar to me? I mean, this is the organization that trained them, funded their training and gave them their certification!??? Rude and classless comes to mind but that is not productive-- You will always have a few in any group that turn bitter and rogue. But for a cliché to form of disgruntled members is suspicious. It makes me wonder about management. Is THEIR heart in the right place? Indeed, do they just look the other way or have they created a culture of malcontent? I think the wagon moves forward best when every one pulls in the same direction. IMHO , JR
    Mr Riley,

    I could not agree more with your statement. How can one be for something but at the same time against the very core establishment???
    Something is amiss here.....or as we used to say "something is rotten in Denmark"!

    Case in point:

    “You may also be aware that some KHAs have been seen by the board to be disloyal to AKCA for voicing criticisms of the AKCA, its committees, or its personnel. Both Spike and I have steadfastly insisted that criticism is a vital right of individuals, and so long as it is constructive, it can be a powerful force for change and improvement”

    “buy ONLY from DBHP certified dealers”.


    Bill Toohey
    Koi Wrangler
    CKHPA

  2. #22
    Daihonmei
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    I do. I know that I was micro managed at one point as a head or member of several committees in the past- it is frustrating for the committee member but absolutely necessary as I can walk away from a committee head position if things blow up but a board member can be sued. In real life, I am a trustee for many trusts, charities etc., and I maybe appreciate the liability more than most who will read this.
    Self insurance would require a separate account of monies to grow in anticipation of future liability. Or in cases of health care liability, a special Insurance policy. But all this is predicated on assessing the risk to begin with. I know of no studies or discussion of this most important 'first step'. So could AKCA withstand ( with it's savings and investment account) a 'hit' from a disgruntled customer of a KHA brought in from a garden center referral or from a dealer who tested, quarantined and still lost all stock to KHV? Sure, probably. But does the board realize this is the potential risk they take to savings? I doubt it. We are all just volunteers- a wonderful collection of talented people, but I doubt any are experts on assessing risk from one of these undetonated time bombs.
    There was a law suit in the UK several years back now in which an agent/employee of a koi company treated fish for a customer at his estate. The customer had bought other fish, as I recall, from another dealer and they were quarantined. During this period the agent for dealer #1 allegedly introduced KHV and cross contaminated all fish. The owner won in court, it was a landmark case for the koi industry in the UK- later another law suit was won and a third settled out of court regarding KHV, health intervention advise and liability. It is hard to sue in the UK. It is very easy to sue in the US and win. JR

  3. #23
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinh View Post
    Is it a list of current AKCA Board of Directors? Does AKCA link www.akca.org lists it somewhere?--D
    Dinh
    I don't think there is a link to the current board members, I could be wrong.

    I just happen to know who all the board members are and there email addresses.

    Please email all of them, and tell them your thoughts on this matter.

  4. #24
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Sorry I'm so chatty this morning----

    When an AKCA judge is chosen, there is an attempt to avoid a political appointment. However, the person who is chosen is considered based on they work the have already done within their AKCA affiliated club and also how they will be viewed as a representative of the association. The club president must put the person's name forward and they need the general support of the membership. In ZNA it is the same.

    I have found it very disturbing that KHAs as a group see no real affiliation to AKCA or the AKCA Magazine? This seems outright bazaar to me? I mean, this is the organization that trained them, funded their training and gave them their certification!??? Rude and classless comes to mind but that is not productive-- You will always have a few in any group that turn bitter and rogue. But for a cliché to form of disgruntled members is suspicious. It makes me wonder about management. Is THEIR heart in the right place? Indeed, do they just look the other way or have they created a culture of malcontent? I think the wagon moves forward best when every one pulls in the same direction. IMHO , JR
    C'est la vie, JR. Let me give you a true story in hoping to make your Sunday....

    A person, who was an officer of a Koi Club at that time sent out email to club memebers asking them to join other Koi group/club. When asked, few directors/officers did not see any thing wrong with that.... Imagine the McDonald's Officer told McDonald's customers to go to Burger King and trying out their new burger becuase Burger King's burger taste better...

  5. #25
    Daihonmei
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    well I'm a wee bit sympathic to Spike's situation as having hundreds of graduates out there is akin to herding cats! But as painful as it is, the leader needs to rein in the renegades. Judges, for instance, are suspended all the time for a number of reasons. And often NOT allowed back.
    I have been suspended for a technical infraction. Not fun for the old ego! But you get time to reflect on things and come to grips with behavior and circumstances. If you can't you leave, and someone else takes 'your oar' over. Lots of folks in grave yards all over this country that once thought of themselves as irreplaceable.
    But here's the thing-- if you see an organization as more important than the individual, you tend to keep rowing!
    This thing will be worked out and we will continue to debate the direction of things within AKCA as we always have. That's healthy. In my opinion, Spike needs to bang a few heads and get back to an AKCA focus. Spike knows how I and many of us feel. And in this particular case, I have to say " The chickens have come home to roost". To his credit, he is always a gentleman. JR

  6. #26
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy M. View Post
    Dinh
    I don't think there is a link to the current board members, I could be wrong.

    I just happen to know who all the board members are and there email addresses.

    Please email all of them, and tell them your thoughts on this matter.
    I thought Kristine is a new member of the Board as well? is that correct?

  7. #27
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    "self Insurance" means that the organization will insure it's members from it's own funds, not that it will buy a special open worded insurance policy from an insurance company. This means a guarantee is made by the board to the management that it's volunteers will be ' insured' under certain terms from AKCA's assets and general funds/savings.

    JR, that sounds insane to me, how or why would AKCA risk, the entire organization, on a program for KHA's.


    There is no cost to this as there is no insurance premium, just a commitment that the association will defend all KHA's activities nationally as AKCA agents as long as they get a waiver signed ( These hard copy signed waivers are likely on file with KHA management as it would be insane not to have this done) and are within the laws defining vet services in their individual states.

    I would think that every member of the AKCA board, would have a copy of these signed waivers, from each and everyone of the KHA's. They should also have on file a copy of each and everyone of the states laws.



    If you think about the extent of this liability you can appreciate the reasons for concern. This is not an attempt to rain on KHAs parade of having fun, but rather a real practical matter of potential risk management in this litigious world we find ourselves in. JR
    I feel for all the KHA's who believed that they were insured. What I don't understand is why would the head of the program, keep telling all these KHA's they were insured, if they knew that it was never passed, that there was only a motion.

    AKCA was established for the koi hobby, along with Koi USA, if I understend the original goals and mission, it was to focus on the teaching of koi, through clubs, shows, seminars and reading material.

    I can understand the need for programs, but should any program rob the AKCA of its financial stability?

    When the KHV fund was established many of us thought this was a great program, but to me the orginal goal was lost...

    Another program that is robing the AKCA/Koi USA is the DBHP, why should the AKCA spend money on marketing research for DEALERS, would'nt that money be better spent on guides or seminars to teach the hobbyist?
    As it is our own responsibility to QT our fish, even if a dealer has already qt'd it..

    As I have been told and seen, not many of the real koi dealers will ever participate in this program, and these are the same ones, that support all the AKCA functions, shows, clubs... So why would should the organization spend all this money to teach dealers, who don't even support the AKCA/Koi USA.... I just don't get it.

  8. #28
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinh View Post
    I thought Kristine is a new member of the Board as well? is that correct?
    Yes, and her email is listed [email protected]

  9. #29
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy M. View Post
    I feel for all the KHA's who believed that they were insured. What I don't understand is why would the head of the program, keep telling all these KHA's they were insured, if they knew that it was never passed, that there was only a motion.

    AKCA was established for the koi hobby, along with Koi USA, if I understend the original goals and mission, it was to focus on the teaching of koi, through clubs, shows, seminars and reading material.

    I can understand the need for programs, but should any program rob the AKCA of its financial stability?

    When the KHV fund was established many of us thought this was a great program, but to me the orginal goal was lost...

    Another program that is robing the AKCA/Koi USA is the DBHP, why should the AKCA spend money on marketing research for DEALERS, would'nt that money be better spent on guides or seminars to teach the hobbyist?
    As it is our own responsibility to QT our fish, even if a dealer has already qt'd it..

    As I have been told and seen, not many of the real koi dealers will ever participate in this program, and these are the same ones, that support all the AKCA functions, shows, clubs... So why would should the organization spend all this money to teach dealers, who don't even support the AKCA/Koi USA.... I just don't get it.

    Perhaps, the Board does not see any wrong with that or many board members do not see any wrong with all of that... Like a true story I mentioned early to JR.

  10. #30
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy M. View Post
    I feel for all the KHA's who believed that they were insured. What I don't understand is why would the head of the program, keep telling all these KHA's they were insured, if they knew that it was never passed, that there was only a motion.

    AKCA was established for the koi hobby, along with Koi USA, if I understend the original goals and mission, it was to focus on the teaching of koi, through clubs, shows, seminars and reading material.

    I can understand the need for programs, but should any program rob the AKCA of its financial stability?

    When the KHV fund was established many of us thought this was a great program, but to me the orginal goal was lost...

    Another program that is robing the AKCA/Koi USA is the DBHP, why should the AKCA spend money on marketing research for DEALERS, would'nt that money be better spent on guides or seminars to teach the hobbyist?
    As it is our own responsibility to QT our fish, even if a dealer has already qt'd it..

    As I have been told and seen, not many of the real koi dealers will ever participate in this program, and these are the same ones, that support all the AKCA functions, shows, clubs... So why would should the organization spend all this money to teach dealers, who don't even support the AKCA/Koi USA.... I just don't get it.
    this is one of my biggest complaints with the DBHP program. Too many people already rely on the dealer to QT their fish. this certification will give many more people a false sense of security when buying fish, thinking that since the dealer is BHP certified, there is no need to QT. The dealer has already taken care of everything for them. If the KHV fund is going to be used for something other than research, it needs to be educating people, not buying them a warm fuzzy feelings towards their dealer.

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