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Thread: Who has KHV?

  1. #11
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by dOHd View Post
    Luke

    Words mean things. Trich, costia etc are not a disease, they are parasites. Parasites that can be killed off 100%. Now in an open system, they can be reintroduced by other mechanisms, but they can be totally eradicated.

    What you see in some outbreaks is the knocking down of the population of parasite, but not the eradication. This can be due to the improper use of meds, both in type and and dosage. In those cases, you get improvement at least for a time in the symptoms, but the parasite issue was never eliminated. That is why you end up with the "ever present" theology. And of course in a mud pond system, there will always be the parasite issue in the background, but they should be at levels that do not pose a serious threat to the fish.

    What I would be interested to see is if the parasite issue in your pond is the result of a weakened Koi due to KHV, or just an over abundance of parasites that overwhelmed several fish in the pond, including half of the new additions.

    d
    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong View Post
    Some mosquitoes are ectoparasites (suck blood)
    A mosquito can be a parasite but not a disease
    Parasites can be vectors of diseases
    Malaria is a disease transmitted by a parasite
    Not all mosquitoes bite

    yeah a silly game but I'll play...
    not all mosquitoes are parasites

  2. #12
    Daihonmei
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  3. #13
    Sansai
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    Luke

    And since in your world costia is a disease and not a parasite, I cant help you. In my world, they are just parasites. They can carry a disease maybe, but they are not one. And they can be eradicated 100% in my world, but not yours, obviously.

    Private note to the lurkers that asked me to respond to the original Mango/costia/KHV killed my fish thread, you have your answer.

    Back to the real world.

    d

  4. #14
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by dOHd View Post
    Luke

    And since in your world costia is a disease and not a parasite, I cant help you. In my world, they are just parasites. They can carry a disease maybe, but they are not one. And they can be eradicated 100% in my world, but not yours, obviously.

    Private note to the lurkers that asked me to respond to the original Mango/costia/KHV killed my fish thread, you have your answer.

    Back to the real world.

    d

    DolT
    a smart alack remark when you're shown you do not have the basic grasp of what is a disease?
    Such a sophomoric attempt to save face. Evidently you aare well suited to be a Koi-Overlord. One who believes that the world is what you say it is..that you decide the definition of a word...
    The limited definition you subscribe to the word, disease, shows your limited knowledge
    For instance, Alcoholism is a disease.
    And yes practically all Infectious diseases are parasites..here is the Real world's definition of parasitism
    "
    Introduction to Parasitology

    Key definitions



    1. Veterinary Parasitology

      Veterinary Parasitology is the science that deals with the parasites of domestic animals. More specifically, it is the science that deals with the interactions between a host and the population of parasites that are found on or in that host. A more encompassing point of view, from an epidemiological perspective, would define Veterinary Parasitology as the science that deals with the interactions between host populations and the parasites that infect them. This broad definition means that Veterinary Parasitology covers many aspects of parasites of domestic animals and their hosts including: the morphology, biochemistry, physiology and life cycles of parasites, the immunological, pathological and clinical responses of the host to the presence of parasites, all aspects of treatment and control of parasitic infections and diseases and the public health aspects of parasites of domestic animals that may also infect humans.
    2. Parasitism
      The term parasitism may be defined as a two-species association in which one species, the parasite, lives on or in a second species, the host, for a significant period of its life and obtains nourishment from it. This is a commonly accepted working definition of parasitism and using it we can emphasize several important features of the host-parasite relationship.


    1. Parasitism always involves two species, the parasite and the host.
    2. Many of these parasitic associations produce pathological changes in hosts that may result in disease.
    3. Successful treatment and control of parasitic diseases requires not only comprehensive information about the parasite itself but also a good understanding of the nature of parasites' interactions with their hosts.
    4. The parasite is always the beneficiary and the host is always the provider in any host-parasite relationship.
    This definition of parasitism is a general one but it tells us nothing about parasites themselves. It does not address which particular infectious organisms of domestic animals we might include in the realm of parasitology. The protozoa, arthropods and helminths are traditionally defined as parasites. However, there are members of the scientific community who designate all infectious agents of animals as parasites including viruses, bacteria and fungi. This broader definition of parasites includes viruses, bacteria and fungi as well as the arthropods, helminths and protozoa. Within this broad definition, parasites are further divided into microparasites and macroparasites. The following table summarizes their salient characteristics.
    Microparasites
    Macroparasites
    Bacteria, Viruses, Fungi, Protozoa
    Arthropods, Helminths
    Unicellular or acellular organisms Multicellular organisms Usually multiply in the host so that a few infecting organisms may give rise to many in a non-immune host. Rarely multiply in a host Short generation time - hours or days Long generation time - usually weeks or months Acute infections most commonly seen. Infected animals may succumb, may recover and show significant protective immunity or the infection may, in some cases revert to a chronic state Chronic infections are most commonly seen but acute infections may be seen in young, susceptible animals. Recovery from acute infections does not necessarily confer immune protection on the host.
    However, the consensus among parasitologists is to view the subjects of the discipline as including only the arthropods, helminths and protozoa.


    all the above was copied verbatim from:
    http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/merial/introduction/intro_1.htm





    I hope you can find it in yourself to understand you are not the be all know all you foolishly believe you are.


    Infectious diseases are parasites.


    And here is an accept definition and medical understanding od the word, Disease.

    dis⋅ease

     /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas⋅ing. –noun 1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment. 2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc. 3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease. 4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
    –verb (used with object) 5. to affect with disease; make ill.

    Origin:
    1300–50; ME disese < AF dese(a)se, disaise; see dis- 1 , ease


    As you can see here again, your limited knowledge of this term impedes your ability to discuss the topic...
    Now quit acting like a child..or go talk to the three lurkers you were answering in your little make believe world you pretend is real.

    the Above definitions are from the Real world..










  5. #15
    Sansai
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    Luke

    you do wonderful research to try and prove your position. Problem is what you posted actually pulls the rug out from your position.

    However, there are members of the scientific community who designate all infectious agents of animals as parasites including viruses, bacteria and fungi


    First off, note that there are members of the community..........That statement in itself means that there are those that believe that statement, but it is not considered the norm when discussing the subject in the community. But still, what they are saying is that viruses, bacteria and fungi are parasites. Not the other way around. The KHV virus can be considered as a parasite under the definition of parasite.

    Remember back in school? All squares are rectangles, but all rectangles are not squares? All the creatures, be they costia, virus, bacteria, flukes etc are all considered parasites. But not all parasites are a disease.

    And that is where you even post references showing where you dont know how to read the definition properly.

    And no, not all knowing. But I did pay attention in biology.

    f

  6. #16
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by dOHd View Post
    Luke

    you do wonderful research to try and prove your position. Problem is what you posted actually pulls the rug out from your position.



    First off, note that there are members of the community..........That statement in itself means that there are those that believe that statement, but it is not considered the norm when discussing the subject in the community. But still, what they are saying is that viruses, bacteria and fungi are parasites. Not the other way around. The KHV virus can be considered as a parasite under the definition of parasite.

    Remember back in school? All squares are rectangles, but all rectangles are not squares? All the creatures, be they costia, virus, bacteria, flukes etc are all considered parasites. But not all parasites are a disease.

    And that is where you even post references showing where you dont know how to read the definition properly.

    And no, not all knowing. But I did pay attention in biology.

    f
    You did pay attention in biology. Who told you? You think you paid attention.

    I taught Biology, Marine Biology, Ecology, Health(not normal 'health" but a required course concerning ALL aspects of health for those attempting to enter The School of Nursing) and health improvement.
    And from that perspective i can tell you did pay attention, part of the time....enough of the time for you to feel comfortable in your understanding of the word disease..but you are not the one that decides what is what. You have not disproven anything I have said about my use of the term, "Disease" .
    I provide all the info concerning the relation between parasitism and disease and how not all diseases are communicable diseases like you incorrectly assumed based on your sometime attentiveness in a high school(?) biology class.
    I ahve had to take many a student "to school" over their misunderstanding of what is a disease, and only you are the only one that continues to maintain the misunderstanding. And you do it for the exact same reason that so many of those that pretend to be intelligent and try to lead the Koi hobby with their faulty understandings.

    Just simply read the definition of Disease and you will read that diseases are not all communicable diseases. The definition of parasitism also clearly shows that parasites whether unicellular or multicellular are Diseases..heck even sub-cellular parasites (viruses) are Diseases as well as parasites.

    What is truly sad is you have grasped the one small phrase that is placed in every scientific discussion, which is the "scientific disclaimer' that allows for the current ACCEPTED understanding to be reviewed, and to not be accepted as irrefutable fact. This was not done for the sake of some kid in a bio class 30 years ago that sometimes paid attention could spout off about how Science backs up his understanding of terms he knows only the smallest manageable amount of.

    My use of the terms, "Parasite" and "Disease" are proper uses of those terms in the medical (people and animals), Scholastic, and scientific literature.
    Your limited perspective is of a layperson with equally limited education, but no lack of self-adulation.
    if you continue to limit your understanding of the terms then that is sad, but it is not good for you nor the hobby if you insist on maintaining such a faulty understanding of these two terms.


    DohD,
    just go read a real definition of disease, and a real definition of parasite and put your ego aside and see whre you are wrong..completely wrong.

  7. #17
    Sansai
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    Dear Luke

    The snippet that I quoted does nothing either way to the discussion. It only stated that some in the scientific community state that the KHV virus can be considered a parasite. It does not say anywhere in what you quoted that parasites are considered a disease.

    So you taught biology.......

    No wonder our educational system is so far behind the rest of the world.

    BTW, I do not decide what is what. Words mean things, and they are not interchangeable for the most part. And in your reference as costia being a disease, it should not be that hard for you to find it stated as such in a recognized reference manual somewhere. Find it for me please.......

    But to the contrary of what you posted, I can show you a ton of reference material that each one refers to costia correctly.....as a parasite only. Now, can the parasite carry a disease? For sure. But the costia itself is not a disease.

    So please Luke, quit with your posting of material that is dead wrong. Along with your argument of Mango deaths, it only spreads incorrect information on the net.

    BTW, are you the poster that on another website recommended automotive stop leak to fix a leak in a pond? Just curious.

    d

  8. #18
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by dOHd View Post
    Dear Luke

    The snippet that I quoted does nothing either way to the discussion. It only stated that some in the scientific community state that the KHV virus can be considered a parasite. It does not say anywhere in what you quoted that parasites are considered a disease.

    So you taught biology.......

    No wonder our educational system is so far behind the rest of the world.

    BTW, I do not decide what is what. Words mean things, and they are not interchangeable for the most part. And in your reference as costia being a disease, it should not be that hard for you to find it stated as such in a recognized reference manual somewhere. Find it for me please.......

    But to the contrary of what you posted, I can show you a ton of reference material that each one refers to costia correctly.....as a parasite only. Now, can the parasite carry a disease? For sure. But the costia itself is not a disease.

    So please Luke, quit with your posting of material that is dead wrong. Along with your argument of Mango deaths, it only spreads incorrect information on the net.

    BTW, are you the poster that on another website recommended automotive stop leak to fix a leak in a pond? Just curious.

    d
    DohD,
    A fool should remain quiet, instead of posting and removing all doubt.
    Costia

  9. #19
    Daihonmei
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    Dohd,
    had you even gone so far as to type "costia disease" in a search engine you would not have conrinued to try and support your undefendable position. As it was you thought you knew it all and felt like you could say something you felt was true and there by it would be true...
    here is another little site that might make you reconsider...the earth is not flat ya pompous azz
    </title></head> <body> <script type="text/javascript"> var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www."); document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascri

    don't like the technical reference..then go argue with Blueridge
    Costia - Disease

  10. #20
    Sansai
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    Costia has more or less only one symptom, it causes the skin of the infected fish to become cloudy and milky. There are as earlier mention several treatments, two that are very effective and one that often work. The two that are very effective do however have some potentially serious [COLOR=black! important][COLOR=black! important]side [COLOR=black! important]effects[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

    . The less effective one without serious side effects is to raise the temperature in the infected aquarium to 27-28 C / 80 - 83 F for a few days which usually cures the disease. This method is not recommended for serious Costia outbreaks as it is not 100% sure to cure to disease and it is preferable to make sure to cure the disease as fast as possible in severe cases.

    The two sure ways to treat costia is with Copper (add 2mg per litre water) or Acriflavine (trypaflavine) (add 1ml per litre water).
    Yup and the Treatment for that first link's Costia disease. Lets dump copper into the pond and see what happens. Quoted from your first link Luke. Another website with faulty information

    d

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