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Thread: Who has KHV?

  1. #1
    Daihonmei
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    Who has KHV?

    I typed this in another, and then deleted it as it deserves a thread of its own:
    "I will keep you all posted..you know I am transparent..even though many choose to drive me underground..i wonder how many others are have not been truthful to themselves and forthcoming to the public. Many hobbyists are probably showing KHV-infected koi and are none the wiser. others have their suspicions that they might have had a break out but did not test and are now convinced it was flukes or something..."

    I can think of reasons to be quiet

    Monetary, some vendors have too much invest to back out and sell diseased koi. Some Hobbyists have no other money to buy another collection. Money is a strong motivator..

    Embarrassment , it is not easy to own up to what I did..And I am one of the only ones? I don't think so.

    Public Denial/Vanity, even to one's self it is difficult to be true, imagine owning up to others in the hobby that consistently unfairly attack your position.

    Personal Denial/Attachment, failure to accept that the koi(pets to some) one keeps are infected and must die

    Laziness/misdiagnosis... Who would have believed my koi were KHV survivors based on a 10 percent die off in which Costia is identified and treated and then only two more koi die?

    This hobby is not being steered by the "Be all Know all"...

    I am comfortable with my collection going to that "big research lab in the sky".
    But when I look at how the hobby reacts to KHV when I have seen what it has done IN MY POND I fail to see the hobby's reaction as logical.
    Any one of a number of disease would have killed more...any one of a number of diseases that are impossible to erradicate in any hobbyists' ponds.
    Yet KHV scares the hell outta people...and only because of what it once did when hobbyists had no clue what to do.

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    Yet KHV scares the hell outta people...and only because of what it once did when hobbyists had no clue what to do.
    ?? Huh?? Is there anything to do? Other than eradication, I don't think so. That is what is so scary.

  3. #3
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Luke...for me..it would be embarassment. On a board of competitors, we tout ourselves as knowledgable and the top percentage of the hobby. it would be hard to live with the fact that I screwed up. But...don't beat yourself up too hard. If sakai(H) and Momotaro can get hit...it can Definitely and literaly happen to the best of us. It has hit some of the top level dealers and hobbyists as well. I used to beat myself up every time I saw an ulcer. Then go crazy treating it and blaming myself. Then..in koi-bito magazine a few articles. The maruyama showa had an ulcer as big as a thumb at base of the tail. Then the kohaku that won the wakagoi show had a pus filled abscess that was incised and drained. Well...if two of the best koi on the planet...with the best keepers and conditioners, can get these issues...what chance do I have to keep them perfect in my backyard pond??? Koi are simply weak fish in my opinion. Low on the food chain plus..Inbred, linebred and have terrible immune systems. I certainly don't see similar problems in my reef fish. So..Don't take it to hard buddy. You'll bounce back better than ever!!


    If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    ?? Huh?? Is there anything to do? Other than eradication, I don't think so. That is what is so scary.
    Huh?? As you say.
    Definition for eradication.....
    1 : to pull up by the roots 2 : to do away with as completely as if by pulling up by the roots <programs to eradicate illiteracy>

    Now My koi are not the roots.
    where are the roots?

    I'm game..let's kill em all...but then what about the roots?

  5. #5
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    ?? Huh?? Is there anything to do? Other than eradication, I don't think so. That is what is so scary.
    MikeM
    do you agree that many of the koi diseases are ever-present? That even if you cure the koi, the disease(trich, costia, etc) are still present, and can flare up?

    and here again, No One and I mean NO ONE has tried to get a handle on how much KHV is present in the hobbyists' koi population....

    there will come a time when the hobby will change its opinion of KHV...
    heck it already has to some extent

  6. #6
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Luke, I really feel sorry for you. Everyone screws up or takes the shortcut once in a while. You just can't do it when it comes to QT.

    Koi are living creatures. They're going to get sick or get sores just like the healthiest people do.

  7. #7
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Oh...and to answer your initial question. 100% you do. Just figured I'd give you a nice percentage answer as well. Enjoy.

  8. #8
    Sansai
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    do you agree that many of the koi diseases are ever-present? That even if you cure the koi, the disease(trich, costia, etc) are still present, and can flare up?
    Luke

    Words mean things. Trich, costia etc are not a disease, they are parasites. Parasites that can be killed off 100%. Now in an open system, they can be reintroduced by other mechanisms, but they can be totally eradicated.

    What you see in some outbreaks is the knocking down of the population of parasite, but not the eradication. This can be due to the improper use of meds, both in type and and dosage. In those cases, you get improvement at least for a time in the symptoms, but the parasite issue was never eliminated. That is why you end up with the "ever present" theology. And of course in a mud pond system, there will always be the parasite issue in the background, but they should be at levels that do not pose a serious threat to the fish.

    What I would be interested to see is if the parasite issue in your pond is the result of a weakened Koi due to KHV, or just an over abundance of parasites that overwhelmed several fish in the pond, including half of the new additions.

    d

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by dOHd View Post
    Luke

    Words mean things. Trich, costia etc are not a disease, they are parasites. Parasites that can be killed off 100%. Now in an open system, they can be reintroduced by other mechanisms, but they can be totally eradicated.

    What you see in some outbreaks is the knocking down of the population of parasite, but not the eradication. This can be due to the improper use of meds, both in type and and dosage. In those cases, you get improvement at least for a time in the symptoms, but the parasite issue was never eliminated. That is why you end up with the "ever present" theology. And of course in a mud pond system, there will always be the parasite issue in the background, but they should be at levels that do not pose a serious threat to the fish.

    What I would be interested to see is if the parasite issue in your pond is the result of a weakened Koi due to KHV, or just an over abundance of parasites that overwhelmed several fish in the pond, including half of the new additions.

    d
    DohT
    if you really are interested in your query, you could go look at the thread again...You don't wnat to?
    well let me remind and then you cango look to see if what i am saying is the truth...
    the first two koi that died "just died, it was like they had heart attacks. That is part of the reason i went with the "mango -poisoning"to begin with. No redness, no flashing, no goo ont the gills, no sunken eyes ...NO NOTHING just, to use an old law enforcement term, DRT; Dead Right There.
    So YEs . The KHV was primary and the parasites were oportunistic..JUST LIKE NORMAL...Costia is gonna show up on weakened koi..they are never eradicated. just knocked back to controlable numbers.
    Once again..some koi died from KHV, Some died because they had KHV and it reduced there energy to fight of other opportunistic DISEASES like Costia.
    Definiton of disease; A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    Dr. Kong

    Some mosquitoes are ectoparasites (suck blood)
    A mosquito can be a parasite but not a disease
    Parasites can be vectors of diseases
    Malaria is a disease transmitted by a parasite
    Not all mosquitoes bite

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