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Thread: Who ya gonna call? "Ghost Busters"

  1. #1
    Daihonmei
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    Who ya gonna call? "Ghost Busters"

    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    No Cindy, the answer is NOT there. Run a Google search on "Royal Koi Maryland" and see what you get! Others are being falsly implicated, plain and simple (even if an Aquascapes dealer comes up first on the search).

    Steve
    You think that Maryland koi dealers are only being viewed with a jaundiced eye(look it up)?
    After my recent bout with khv i received quite a few messages telling me of the mindset that KHV is doing to people thta have never even seen a KHV-infected koi...They want to buy more koi but won't because they do not want to buy a carrier or a fish that has a "BirdPoop" magnet in its butt...
    All Sellers and the Hobby as a whole suffers because of the incorrect, unethical, silly position that the AKCA has taken and many of its non-thinking verbal hobbyists accept....and that is, The Selling of diseased koi is between the hobbyist (extrremely limited sources and ethically motivated) and the Diseased koi Seller( ALL their Finacial resources and unethically behavior an appropriate reaction)...
    What the AKCA needs is a
    GHOST BUSTERS! KHV unit....
    Now of course "The KHV Unit" can't be mobilized by just any hobbyist that thinks "sunshine" caught KHV from one of the Petsmart koi they bought. But there should be QUICK identification by a respected akca Representative that the Hobbyist does infact have a KHV outbreak and that it is likely that the Supplier of the fish can be recognised (as in the case of Enchanted)
    Imagine a unit that helps a hobbyist determine exactly where the LAB IDENTIFIED KHV in their backyard came from.... and protect the hobbyist (and the hobby) from the rage and unruthlessness of the Supplier.
    The AKCA would be improving the hobby by being a highly visible, willing participant in identifying transactions where KHV fish were sold as being healthy. "Reputable breeders and suppliers would quickly be identified....and the reverse would become apparent.

  2. #2
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    You need to take into account how these things work in the real world, Luke.

    You also need to remember that the AKCA is a loose confederation of clubs staffed by volunteers -- and operates with very limited funding.

    So if you're not just having fun pissing on your own foot, contact your local AKCA Club's AKCA Dir/Rep; convince him/her your idea has merit.

    Have your AKCA Dir/Rep contact the AKCA's Local Board Member contact that holds your club's proxy; convince him/her your idea has merit.

    Have your AKCA Local Board Member lay a motion before the Board; convince them your idea has merit.

    Ideas which are found to have merit (and for which the Board has sufficient personnel and funds to implement them) can be added to the list of services the AKCA already provides to the Hobby.

    Hopefully that makes sense?

    Any questions?
    Don Chandler
    Member: AKCA, ZNA, KoiUSA

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    ...the Hobby as a whole suffers because of the incorrect, unethical, silly position that the AKCA has taken and many of its non-thinking verbal hobbyists accept....and that is, The Selling of diseased koi is between the hobbyist (extrremely limited sources and ethically motivated) and the Diseased koi Seller
    The AKCA has not taken a position, Luke. That may be your point. But, there is a difference.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The AKCA has not taken a position, Luke. That may be your point. But, there is a difference.
    Nor has any hobbyist I've ever heard of taken that position... except of course in Lukes imagination

  5. #5
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    More delusional nonsense. Somebody send this guy some psych meds already. I'll write the script!!!

  6. #6
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    Nor has any hobbyist I've ever heard of taken that position... except of course in Lukes imagination
    I wonder what would stand up in court to actually convince a judge that a fish infected with Khv was delibratly sold . Because if that is not proven then there could be a million $ law suit against the accuser in a counter claim .
    Regards
    Eugene

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    A diseased koi is a faulty product and as such the need to identify sources of such product is worthwhile. the seller does not need to be aware of the disease when they sell the fish, i never suggested criminal prosecution.
    The Hobby should seek to identify the SOURCES, and quit harping on the Hobbyists' Quarantining Practices.
    Quarantining practices help save individual ponds....ferreting out the sources of the disease would save the hobby

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The AKCA has not taken a position, Luke. That may be your point. But, there is a difference.
    that's right MikeM...which adds credence to my understanding that the AKCA ( a hobby run by amateurs) at its inception, and up till today is heavily influenced by the Sellers and breeders of koi...Clearly the only logical explanation for not attempting to have any attempt made at identifying where khv koi come from is that the Koi providers do not want to be suspect...
    No attempt is made to protect future koi purchases from the Disease source by identifying the source...as a matter of fact the unthinking "hobbyists" accepts the Unethical Smokescreens Sellers often propose...Bad labs, bird poop...carrier koi...not really kHV but anoher treatable disease....
    The Sources are fighting dirty and doing everything they can to make sure they have the light bill paid.... Hobbyists don't have the energy or desire to be as negative or as resourceful as Sellers...Sellers control the minds of those that can not think clearly, are easily confused and swayed, or have their own agendas.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    As often is the case, Luke, there is much underlying truth in what you say, but you say it in a manner that grates rather than convinces.

    In a perfect world, a system for tracking down KHV sources makes sense. In this imperfect world, for the AKCA to initiate such a program would require volunteers in communities across the country and a structure for training/managing them. The reality of volunteerism is that 'true believers' are the ones attracted with an abundance of energy. This can be a good thing when channeled positively. I've noticed, however, that those attracted to playing 'rule enforcer' tend to get over the top with their role. Anyone involved with a condo association has seen the type. It usually does not turn out well unless a lot of limits are imposed and monitored. I don't think the AKCA is in a position to operate such a bureaucracy, nor do I think you'd like what it would become. The AKCA really has only moral authority, with little resources.

    I do wish breeders and dealers would do more. The bad apples do harm all of them.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei
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    KHV is an Industry problem. It began in the koi production industry and intensified in the koi industry's distribution network. And it is the koi industry that is working to end it by ;
    1) more biosecurity measures
    2) government testing and monitoring ( in Japan)
    3) by vaccination ( In Israel)
    4) by depopulating on some farms ( but obviously not all)

    That is THEIR job

    OUR job as hobbyists is NOT to police the businesses world wide. Our job is to protect our fish by the following means;

    1) to ask dealers what they personally do to protect their stock
    2) to quarantine fish before introduction to our collection
    3) to use all the tools available to us - heat testing, naive companions, testing etc.
    4) to educate ourselves and our fellow hobbyists about the disease

    KOI has ALWAYS been a partnership between the professionals and the hobbyists. Fighting this disease is no different.
    parasites used to be a serious problem, and with no education, they used to wipe out ponds. The very same is true aeromonas that used to kill 50-80% of fish that contracted it. They were , no doubt easier solutions. But once found, mostly thru education and awareness campaigns, the problems were moved to the nuisance category. But still today, you can get parasites from fish bought on the internet or the pet store. And aeromonas still wipes out ponds of the casual water gardener. That is a fact of life, and another fact of life is that KHV will ALWAYS be somewhere, some place around the world. And certainly NO ONE is going to tell the Chinese businessman how to grow his koi!

    Luke, I do not wish to add to your pain. But you did not take steps 1- 4.
    The industry is doing it's part , albeit slow and spotty, we need to all do our part. - JR

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