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Thread: UK KHV vaccine trials . . .

  1. #21
    Fry
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    The biggest question I have is regarding post vaccination testing. Do you know if they are working on vaccine specific tests that can easily and accurately distinguish between a vaccinated Koi and an infected Koi? There needs to be a way to identify both cases in a single reliable manner in order to prevent fraud and protect customers of Koi being sold as "vaccinated".
    A bit more info in UK pets today which I think answers your question on testing...

    Koi Herpes Virus, (KHV) is deadly and affects all varieties of carp including the well-known Koi. KHV is a 'notifiable' disease and any symptoms found in fish stocks must be reported in the UK, to the Fish Health Inspectorate (FHI). There is currently no cure for the disease but, as we approach the UK's best known pet and garden aquatic trade show, GLEE, (Birmingham NEC), scientists at a West Midlands bio-tech company, Henderson Morley may be on the verge of a KHV vaccine breakthrough.

    In April 2008 Henderson Morley (HML), signed an agreement with pharmaceutical giant Schering-Plough. (In the UK, Schering owns Milton Keynes based Intervet).

    Under the agreement Schering-Plough made undisclosed quarterly payments to HML's development of a KHV vaccine over a 15 month period. This was a precurser to an option to take an exclusive 10 year worldwide licence to commercially exploit any KHV vaccine produced by HML.

    That 15 month sponsored development period is now ending. Throughout the period HML has been scrupulous in meeting the deadlines it set for itself in regular press updates.

    HML has also developed ELISA blood tests that discriminate between infected and non infected fish and, during the development period, additions to vaccines that help boost immune responses to KHV.

    By last Christmas, initial phase field studies were completed, and by March of this year the company anticipated that its results would be ready for submission to Schering-Plough in July.

    Then came a slight slip in the schedule. We had to wait until 13 August for HML to report that its KHV vaccine field study had produced positive results. Two of its vaccine groups showed that 96% and 93% of vaccinated fish had survived and remained healthy beyond the study, (full details).

    The news sent the price of HML's shares up almost 30%. Now, almost two weeks later and on a day that saw HML shares again up 20%, shareholders appear to be anticipating yet more news of a positive end to the project period.

    After years of failure at finding a solution to the KHV problem in our carp, aquaculturists, ornamentals enthusiasts and UK anglers may soon be seeing light at the end of a very long Koi Herpes Virus tunnel.

  2. #22
    Daihonmei
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    Very promising stuff! But still a promise as big Pharma is always putting seed money at there in hopes of finding the next drug or vaccine. in fact this is how big Pharma makes discoveries- by funding other small research companies. There is something called a 'burn rate' which is a way of picturing the money being lost to the gamble of research over time. Finally the last hurdle if a drug is successful is for it to be approved for use by governmental entities.
    So those speculation stocks in the area of drug development are very volatile as you go thru the burn rate period, the trials and finally the governmental approval-- NOT for the faint of heart!

    Some where along the line and in the near future we will see a flurry of vaccines of KHV. Both injectible and dip type. It's really just a matter of time.
    This will be great news but not a simple ending as the carrier issue is still there. And that will take considerable research to understand the dynamic when we are in the world of protected fish and non protected fish. AKCA has funded research specifically around the nature and details of carrier status and how to separate out the carrier ( and maybe in additional future studies- the differences between the vaccinated and the natural carrier). Lots more work to do over the next 10 years. - JR

  3. #23
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    The biggest question I have is regarding post vaccination testing. Do you know if they are working on vaccine specific tests that can easily and accurately distinguish between a vaccinated Koi and an infected Koi? There needs to be a way to identify both cases in a single reliable manner in order to prevent fraud and protect customers of Koi being sold as "vaccinated".
    Ok I'll bite...just how is the fraud going to be done?

  4. #24
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    Ok I'll bite...just how is the fraud going to be done?
    You are kidding right?

    Unscrupulous Koi Dealer with 2 tanks of fish.
    Quarantine Tank A contains 20 Israeli vaccinated Koi.
    Quarantine Tank B contains 20 cheap Asian Imports, one of which is KHV positive.
    During quarantine Tank B begins to show signs of virus spreading/shedding, so the unscrupulous Koi dealer heats the Tank to 96 deg F and holds it there for a few weeks to "heat immunize" the fish.
    15 immune carriers survive the heat treatment.
    All 15 test positive for KHV.
    All 20 Israeli vaccinated fish likewise test positive for KHV.
    None of the fish are sick, but all are offered for sale as "Immunized" Israeli Koi.
    How hard is fraud? Not hard at all if the tests cannot positively discriminate between immune carrier and vaccinated immune Koi, hence my question
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  5. #25
    Daihonmei
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    I think they will eventually have markers in these vaccines , Larry. JR

  6. #26
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    I think they will eventually have markers in these vaccines , Larry. JR
    And that eventuality will make a world of difference for all of us won't it...

  7. #27
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    I think they will eventually have markers in these vaccines , Larry. JR
    i think that the last post by the KHV vaccine promoter notes that they have already identified readily detectable markers.
    Last edited by luke frisbee; 08-27-2009 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #28
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    i think that the last post by the LHV vaccine promoter notes that they have already identified readily detectable markers.
    It does, unless you read the words...

    "...HML has also developed ELISA blood tests that discriminate between infected and non infected fish..."

    I'm pretty sure that statement says nothing about distinguishing between "vaccinated" and "infected". If it was intended to, they failed in grammar and syntax...

  9. #29
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    You are kidding right?

    Unscrupulous Koi Dealer with 2 tanks of fish.
    Quarantine Tank A contains 20 Israeli vaccinated Koi.
    Quarantine Tank B contains 20 cheap Asian Imports, one of which is KHV positive.
    During quarantine Tank B begins to show signs of virus spreading/shedding, so the unscrupulous Koi dealer heats the Tank to 96 deg F and holds it there for a few weeks to "heat immunize" the fish.
    15 immune carriers survive the heat treatment.
    All 15 test positive for KHV.
    All 20 Israeli vaccinated fish likewise test positive for KHV.
    None of the fish are sick, but all are offered for sale as "Immunized" Israeli Koi.
    How hard is fraud? Not hard at all if the tests cannot positively discriminate between immune carrier and vaccinated immune Koi, hence my question
    If the fish are tested for KHV the lat update of the vaccine in this thread states that the vaccine is clearly discerned from the actually KHV.
    But even before that...you think someone is gonna bother trying to pass off cheap infected imports as khv vaccinated koi.... No one is gonna test a "cheap import"...cheap imports" look like "cheap imports"...
    No one is gonna pay to test a "cheap import" as to whether it has the vaccine...so no dealer will try and pass them off as vaccinated koi.

    And already the dealers have the leaders of the communities covering their backsides for them...every khv outbreak is the responsibility of the hobbyist who bought the khv-infected koi. No activity is done to address the fact that dealers (as a group) consistently sell diseased koi. All a dealer has to say is "I tested the koi that i sold him before I sold them and they were clean."
    So there is no need to misrepresent diseased koi as vaccinated koi...just say this "I tested the koi before I sold them to him and they were clean."
    The only proof needed is a recently done Eliza test. And the word of the dealer that the test was done on the batch that the koi that were bought from..and then you have the cause of the disease placed cleanly in the hobbyists' ponds...it was a bird that brought it in..or a carrier the Hobbyist must have had in there for years...
    truth is... buying a koi from a dealer is a much greater risk than from a breeder.

  10. #30
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Make up your mind Luke. Either buying from dealers is "safe" because they have no need to lie about their fish, or it is dangerous because they all lie about their fish

    Go on a fish hunt for some of those wonderfully "rare and unique" crapagoi being sold to the unwitting for serious $$$$ and tell me again there is no motivation for selling "cheap imports" as though they were not. "Cheap" may be what the dishonest dealer pays, but it would NOT be the word applied when they market them... You and I might not buy that crap, but somebody will

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