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Thread: Not my koi..But, I want opinions of this kohaku?

  1. #1
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Not my koi..But, I want opinions of this kohaku?

    I saw this 15inch male kohaku from Kokugyokan for sale. Being an admitted pattern junky..I love it. I like the conformation...even the fact it is a male does not bother me. My question and issue is the shiro. Because the beni is so red...would you assume that color food made the shiro yellowish? Or..do you think it is a male with yellowish shiro, and it will stay that way?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Not my koi..But, I want opinions of this kohaku?-kohaku-ebay.jpg  

  2. #2
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Does the lack of Sashi tell us the Beni is finished (at 15")

    Did the photo happen just as the gills were flared out or is there a issue

    You say "Male" , so I'm passing based on that .

  3. #3
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    I would be asking for multiple pictures based on the shiroji as well as the flared gills. I'd like to see more becuase if they are flared for the sake of breathing, then they should be able to get a photo with them pulled in.

    yeah, the pattern is nice and all. Like Troy said, very finished.

    the off color could sure be from color food, but I suspect it is from either being male, or from just coming out of the mud....probably the former.

    Not all males are off color though. The head usually has an off-white color on a male that may/may not clean up with age. I don't personally care for how off white the color is though on it.

    Could be the water it's in too, but the pectoral fins look just plain dirty compared to most high end kohaku I have seen.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    You should assume the yellow tones will remain unless you have cause to think otherwise. At this point, there is no reason to think the yellow will clear up, especially given that it is a male.

    The red pigment may not be enhanced by color food. It could be the underlying yellow tones enhance the appearance of thickness.

    I find the pattern appealing.

  5. #5
    Jumbo
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    "Does the lack of Sashi tell us the Beni is finished (at 15")"

    No, the lack of sashi tells us something about the lineage,... not that the hi plate is finished. The look of the beni and the size at the given age will tell us where the beni is in its development,... along with the hints we have of the lineage.

    A 22 month old female Kohaku - notice the small sharp sashi at this age, size, and sex.



    A sibling Kohaku, female, same age, same parent set (lineage). These are both female examples. We can expect males to be slightly more finished than this at this age. The sashi on both is very small and sharp, BUT the hi plates are sill very much immature.

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood


  6. #6
    Daihonmei
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    Ditto on Brady's comments about sashi and lineage. If you look at the kiwa, it is consistant with 'no hoshi' and signs of sensuki kohaku.

    The fish is a good fish and it really comes down to the money. This fish may be the victim of color food or it might not be blessed with good quality shiroji to being with. I honestly can't tell from the picture. And in all modesty, if I can't tell, most other hobbyists who read these message boards will not be able to tell you either. I'd ask for more pictures also to see if you get a more definitive look at the white ground.
    What I do like about this fish is that for a 'trick pattern' fish is has a very well balanced pattern. So it's not so much the head shape pattern ( the trick part) that makes this a better fish but rather the overall lay out of the pattern as it flows over the entire body. I also like that long head, large gill plate and the fact that those traits of 'good grower' are carried all the way thru the fish- from the shoulders to the peduncle.
    Having said all that, the jetai is not right ( fundamental white ground and complexity of the beni cells ) then the fish is not of any great value.
    So what is the price? JR

  7. #7
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    I'm with Brady and JR on this one. Too many questions on the shiroji and the need for more definitive pictures, but the hoshi beni vs deep sashi makes a big difference to me when trying to evaluate one like this. We have 2 males and one of them has this type of beni. No sashi, sharp kiwa, and even though it is a male the pattern has remained rock solid for 3 years now as he has grown. It looks finished, but not "done".

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Brandwood View Post
    "Does the lack of Sashi tell us the Beni is finished (at 15")"

    No, the lack of sashi tells us something about the lineage,...

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood

    exactly! and that is a sort of trend ( Japanese breeders prefer ) in recent years....

  9. #9
    Jumbo farne230's Avatar
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    Brady is the two step kohaku for sale?
    Bob

  10. #10
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Ditto on Brady's comments about sashi and lineage. If you look at the kiwa, it is consistant with 'no hoshi' and signs of sensuki kohaku.

    The fish is a good fish and it really comes down to the money. This fish may be the victim of color food or it might not be blessed with good quality shiroji to being with. I honestly can't tell from the picture. And in all modesty, if I can't tell, most other hobbyists who read these message boards will not be able to tell you either. I'd ask for more pictures also to see if you get a more definitive look at the white ground.
    What I do like about this fish is that for a 'trick pattern' fish is has a very well balanced pattern. So it's not so much the head shape pattern ( the trick part) that makes this a better fish but rather the overall lay out of the pattern as it flows over the entire body. I also like that long head, large gill plate and the fact that those traits of 'good grower' are carried all the way thru the fish- from the shoulders to the peduncle.
    Having said all that, the jetai is not right ( fundamental white ground and complexity of the beni cells ) then the fish is not of any great value.
    So what is the price? JR
    They are asking $205 shipped as a starting price. So, not bad to take a chance. I know this dealer feeds color food..as they are selling it recently. I went for a showa instead. But, will consider this one as well. The pattern is so good it is making me sweat!!

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