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Thread: Peter Waddington's ERIC - Endless River In Concrete

  1. #21
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    OK, the bacteria we grow is aerobic, Oxygen loving, Right? I just don't see how static matts can out perform a good moving bed filter with oxygen constantly being added. Just as I don't see how a moving bed could ever out perform a good shower. But I will admit I have never used matts. Just M/Bs and Showers.

  2. #22
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    OK, the bacteria we grow is aerobic, Oxygen loving, Right? I just don't see how static matts can out perform a good moving bed filter with oxygen constantly being added. Just as I don't see how a moving bed could ever out perform a good shower. But I will admit I have never used matts. Just M/Bs and Showers.
    agreed but....
    for the eric (i think) there is air between each stack of mat and the matts don't sit directly in top of each other, but like I said ..."I think I remember that correctly", so there is plently of air and the huge water volume it adds to the system as a whole may help make up in some other lacking area?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by webkoi View Post
    let me tell you it is not! i now,having seen 3/4 erics of varying sizes pulled apart and built again,im convinced that peter is on to something with this new filter design,the horizontal flow design enables the water to move as a block and tries to eliminate tracking,to achieve maximum water to media contact time with an 85% efficiency rating,
    Educate me please. What does 85% efficiency mean? What kind of instrumentation did he use to arrive at these figures?

    I always assumed given enough media the bacteria would grow to the amount of food provided, (ammonia). I have seen with my side by side M/Bs and showers where after 4 years the M/B media is still as white as new, so with 0 nitrates that tells me the bacteria has chosen to colonize the shower over the M/B. So if I have 0 nitrates does that mean my shower is working at 100% efficiency? And 85% would be 15 pph? I'm lost here.

  4. #24
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Steve, I experienced the same phenomenon w/ my shower and Nexus systems. When the shower is running, the K1 in my Nexus turns lighter (but biochips' color stays the same - perhaps different type of bug?). When shower is off, the K1 actually darkens up over a period of a couple of weeks.

    I agree with you that we have to define what efficiency is. If I understand correctly, I believe that Peter is implying that percentage efficiency is defined by how much of the media is actually in contact with the ammonia-rich pond water. I still find it difficult to accept that the amount of media exposure is drastically increased with having aeration in between mat cartridges simply because it does not affect the fact that water still takes the path of least resistance. Besides, weren't Japanese breeders aerating between their Jmats before the ERIC system?

    I was hoping for a more scientific/concrete explanation of how the ERIC system is more effective than other types of biological filtration. Afterall, there has to be something there for the Japanese breeders to continue to use it and for several serious hobbyists to swear by it. In the end, I still believe that more than adequate aerated filtration combined with a religious practice of water change and filtration maintenance is the most effective way to keep koi growing and healthy. I also believe in not putting all my eggs in one nest by having at least two different types of biological filtrations.

  5. #25
    Tosai
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    ok here goes,im no expert on the eric theres only one guy who can claim that,
    ill tell you this, i observed a pond built in the states this year which contained 12 drains and in turn was fitted with 12 erics
    (1 drain to 1 filter)the pond when ready was filled with water from the guys mud pond(stock pond)now you can imagine how dirty this water was??
    the fiters were started with no air diffusers in place,and when they arrived the filters had to be drained to fit them.the matting cartridge showed a slick of mud ,obviousley where the water had TRACKED thru the filter taking the coarse easiest!!
    the slick covered the central area of the cartridge some 30-35% of the area,above and below this there was no staining at all,confirming the fact that the cartridge was about 30-35% effective the bulk of the bacteria would therefore in my opinion colonise this area with the rest of the cartridge becoming redundant and stagnant,not good!!
    when the aireation was introduced and the same process repeated the staining was observed on approx 85% of the cartidge??,now i dont know if these figures are exact but they are as near as possible.
    to get the same water coverage as the aireation we would have to either increase the flow rate 2.5 times or enlarge the filter and media 2.5 times roughly?
    i dont know if this a "scientific"experiment but it was enough to convince me that the aireation is essential to the success of the system,add to this the ease of use cleaning ect which is neglegable compared to other units 10 seconds a day!!
    i know people who are running these units already having great results as far as clarity and parameters are concerned.

    p.s just to add its not my filter nor my job to defend it or convince anyone??!!
    im just tellin it how i see it!any technical questions should be aimed at the filters creator!

  6. #26
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    Hello, the above post is good except that there were 24 ERIC FOUR units fitted and not 12 - each drain ran to 2 x 4" off-takes to give the one drain - one filter - one pump principle in view of the base vacuum effect needed on such a large volume of water.
    The pond was filled rapidly with 'sludge' water as the owner was particularly concerned he did not alter the field pond water make up too rapidly.

    There appears to be many questions arising from statements I have made on the ericpondfilters website. I have only just been able to post here and so I will be pleased to give answers to any questions that remain.

    Waddy.

  7. #27
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    There appears to be many questions arising from statements I have made on the ericpondfilters website. I have only just been able to post here and so I will be pleased to give answers to any questions that remain.

    Waddy.
    Why not have a vortex settlement chamber prior to the ERIC?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    Hello, the above post is good except that there were 24 ERIC FOUR units fitted and not 12 - each drain ran to 2 x 4" off-takes to give the one drain - one filter - one pump principle in view of the base vacuum effect needed on such a large volume of water.
    The pond was filled rapidly with 'sludge' water as the owner was particularly concerned he did not alter the field pond water make up too rapidly.

    There appears to be many questions arising from statements I have made on the ericpondfilters website. I have only just been able to post here and so I will be pleased to give answers to any questions that remain.

    Waddy.
    apologies peter i didnt realise the units were doubles!!
    also am i right in assuming that a vortex in front of the eric would be pointless,considering that the brushes do the same job and are flushed regularly??

  9. #29
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    Hello,

    Depending on the amount of water to be processed a vortex unit, correctly made, needs a very gentle spin in order to provide good centripetal action - it also requires a central off-take wirh larger bore than the supply intake which is fitted at a lower level and thus has more head than the exit tube. To give a fair example of say 5,000 gallons of water to be processed via a single bottom drain (maximum in my experience) then the unit would need to be 50" diameter and 5.5 feet deep - this takes up significant space and also produces what every upward-flow unit produces - namely tracking to the outlet in the centre. This leaves 80% of stagnant water remaining constantly within the unit itself.

    My argument is, that by accepting that all mechanical stages are merely lavatories AND accepting that all lavatories require regular flushing then we collect and dispose of the waste as quickly and as often as required with the minimum wastage of good water.

    I give an example of a 10 second per day lift and replacement of the standpipe that is adequate for the majority of a single 4" drain per day - even with warm water, high feeding and a reasonably high stocking level. In exceptional circumstances I cannot see this being required more than twice a day - 20 seconds?

    If I have not answered to your satisfaction then let me know.

    Waddy.

  10. #30
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I would quibble over some details of the description of vortex operation, but in the main do not disagree. I am thinking that the vortex settlement chamber is a relatively efficient and simple means to eliminate the bulk of waste from the system. I guess I have doubts that lifting a standpipe does as well at cleaning waste entrapped by brushes. Of course, I have not seen ERIC in operation. (I am a great believer in your philosophy of not filtering water through fish crap.)

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