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Thread: Peter Waddington's ERIC - Endless River In Concrete

  1. #351
    Daihonmei
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    The absolutely silliest thing I have seen on this thread so far is the photo of the large concrete pond ( rectangle ) with series of these black boxes lined up along side the construction in sequence. I think the author or someone mentioned six units on each side of the pond.
    I suspect that the photographer thought the arrangement looked 'kind of cool' and the manufacturer imagined the arrangement to be as attractive as viewing 12 cylinders on ana exotic sports car.
    But honestly, truth be known-- what a silly idea! Although no one appreciates a great design and the arrangement of symetrical lines more than I, the photo BEGS the question-- If the installer went thru the trouble and expense of a major concrete construction why on earth noy finish the job with concrete endless filter bays????? I mean the discount is there based on the pond construction, the materials and labor is there and most important of all, the opportunity is the there to customize the raceways to the pond!
    Seems like an opportunity lost to me. An opportunity to save money, uniform design and customize details of the bays themselves. JR

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    The absolutely silliest thing I have seen on this thread so far is the photo of the large concrete pond ( rectangle ) with series of these black boxes lined up along side the construction in sequence. I think the author or someone mentioned six units on each side of the pond.
    I suspect that the photographer thought the arrangement looked 'kind of cool' and the manufacturer imagined the arrangement to be as attractive as viewing 12 cylinders on ana exotic sports car.
    But honestly, truth be known-- what a silly idea! Although no one appreciates a great design and the arrangement of symetrical lines more than I, the photo BEGS the question-- If the installer went thru the trouble and expense of a major concrete construction why on earth noy finish the job with concrete endless filter bays????? I mean the discount is there based on the pond construction, the materials and labor is there and most important of all, the opportunity is the there to customize the raceways to the pond!
    Seems like an opportunity lost to me. An opportunity to save money, uniform design and customize details of the bays themselves. JR
    Strangely enough,
    it's not often you're right but,
    once again,
    you're wrong again
    right enough!

    Please listen to me for once my dear little construction technician.

    It was FAR cheaper to freight and install ready-made boxes than it was to install underground 4" pipelines and fittings to build into the concrete base structure and then render and waterproof the resulting finished compartments.

    And then pray that ALL internals would fit and interchange exactly as required - but you have yet to get to that part of the website haven't you?

    Once again, dear armchair observer, the person holding the purse was FAR from being a very silly little boy.

    Now, please run it by me just once more so I may bring some more mirth into my day.

    Your profession is what?

    Go on - tell us all again............

    REALLY!

    Waddy.

  3. #353
    Daihonmei
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    Not sure why you have a need to make this personal? LOLs
    I'm suggesting a better filter design and likely cheaper as the labor and materials are already there. The excavation is done in both cases, the sub floor is poured and the fittings are layed on the subfloor either way.
    It might ( or might not ) interest you to know that I was a builder in a second business and in the 1980s and although my brother was the 'hands on guy' at the sites, As a 'silent partner' I learned my share about pouring footings, concrete cost by the yard, truck capacity, excavation, shooting levels, block and costs to build. In fact the cost part was my job description. And as a pour you can order water proofing right at the yard and they put it in the mix. Honestly your information about pond building is locked in 1980s technology. I do believe a guy should stick with what they know and do best but for haven's sake, how about a LITTLE continuing education. And forget the Japan references. I haven't been to Japan in years now, but it was two years more recently than yourself so please give up that angle in your sales presentations.
    All I'm suggesting is that rather than building a series of boxes why not build a raceway endless system like that young upstart Maeda did down there in old Japan?? I mean, he's not 'waddy' of course, The great western grifter, but he does seem to have a certain talent for actually making and growing those red and white fish. His raceways run the length of the concrete pond. I can post a blue print if you like for your latest victim to follow? Then again, why make that poor sap you convinced to go with truck load of plastic boxes feel badly? These's nothing worse then Mr ERIC buyer remorse! We'll need to find a phrase for the moment the light bulb goes on in a customer's head ( maybe we'll have a contest?) .
    Waddy all I can say is how will you keep all these newbie dealers down on the Mr ERIC farm once they see Paris! ( in this case, anyone who sees the Paris of koi- the Japanese breeder's raceways). For cost and performance there is comparison. JR

  4. #354
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    It is a thing of mighty wonder how pretty fish raise the passions of men (and Mademoiselles).

    In a few more views this thread will move into the top 20 viewed threads in Koi-Bitoís history. Waddy and his accompanying posters are an exciting addition to Bito.

    Posting here reminds me much of my misspent youth pursing Mornington Crescent. Suzy you are an artist (your last name isnít Creamcheese I suppose?).

  5. #355
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    Hello again,

    Firstly, thanks for letting me know that 'Jimbo' is not 'JasPR' - I never thought it was.

    Secondly, I was invited onto this forum to answer questions on a filter system I have designed and offered for sale on my website - I agreed. I have never posted on this forum before.

    Thirdly, If you read my replies and my website, I am not 'bad-mouthing' any other filter system but I cannot let people know how efficient my unit is in the aspects of surface coverage and nil water stagnation unless I show comparisons with other common flow patterns, hence the animations.
    Yes Waddy, "Animation" is so much more believable than an actual video...here in the States Animation is all the rage in movies that deal in fantasy...
    Suzette, my Little French pastry...have you done any modeling for any of the Erotic Anime..OUI! OUI!

    Fourthly, does it matter if another product is sold all over the world or not? I am offering people another option that's completely different - is there a problem with this?
    It is Only "completely different" in the minds of those you have "infiltrated."

    Fifthly, I have no idea what you mean regarding 'Dollar/Pound' - exchange rates are always there just like Yen vs Pound - please explain. Your 'opinion' as to 'coy way to push your products' is called 'competition' - that's all. As to 'the hell with anyone else' - I genuinely feel my product is better than all others and I am letting this be known via my website - it's called 'advertising' and is open to everyone as are opinions.
    I can see how you would "genuinely feel my product is better than all others." If a Filter made me money and others did not then i would genuinely feel that filter was better than all others."

    Finally, everyone has freedom of choice - including family members. I cannot see where you are going here. Perhaps your own family members have varied tastes in music, clothing, toothpaste etc.?
    FINALLY, you point out the reason people choose your filter.....it is a matter of "taste." Those that know no other filtration system or that do not care to bother to learn about filtration will chose one based on "taste."

    I have no doubts at all that your questions are 'somewhat aggressive' towards me but I fail to see the relevance of any of them in regard to this thread. However, I do hope I have answered them to your full satisfaction.

    Waddy.
    Waddy,
    Animations as proof? Your opinion as the basis to declare the Waddy filter best? And personal "taste" as the reason people buy "The Waddy box"?

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Not sure why you have a need to make this personal? LOLs
    I'm suggesting a better filter design and likely cheaper as the labor and materials are already there. The excavation is done in both cases, the sub floor is poured and the fittings are layed on the subfloor either way.
    It might ( or might not ) interest you to know that I was a builder in a second business and in the 1980s and although my brother was the 'hands on guy' at the sites, As a 'silent partner' I learned my share about pouring footings, concrete cost by the yard, truck capacity, excavation, shooting levels, block and costs to build. In fact the cost part was my job description. And as a pour you can order water proofing right at the yard and they put it in the mix. Honestly your information about pond building is locked in 1980s technology. I do believe a guy should stick with what they know and do best but for haven's sake, how about a LITTLE continuing education. And forget the Japan references. I haven't been to Japan in years now, but it was two years more recently than yourself so please give up that angle in your sales presentations.
    All I'm suggesting is that rather than building a series of boxes why not build a raceway endless system like that young upstart Maeda did down there in old Japan?? I mean, he's not 'waddy' of course, The great western grifter, but he does seem to have a certain talent for actually making and growing those red and white fish. His raceways run the length of the concrete pond. I can post a blue print if you like for your latest victim to follow? Then again, why make that poor sap you convinced to go with truck load of plastic boxes feel badly? These's nothing worse then Mr ERIC buyer remorse! We'll need to find a phrase for the moment the light bulb goes on in a customer's head ( maybe we'll have a contest?) .
    Waddy all I can say is how will you keep all these newbie dealers down on the Mr ERIC farm once they see Paris! ( in this case, anyone who sees the Paris of koi- the Japanese breeder's raceways). For cost and performance there is comparison. JR
    Look, for the very last time - get the word 'raceway' out of your head. ERIC has nothing to do with raceways?
    The filter pics posted by Ray J were nothing to do with horizontal-flow filters, they were units made in the UK based on early designs I brought out in '83. These were upward-flow units.

    How about you get back to doing what we all love you for? An in-depth blood analysis in 3 year-old female Beni Kumonryu after she has been inadvertantly subjected to a rogue electrical charge lasting over 3.1 milliseconds whilst being in a crap pond that has a pH of 6.133 recurring and tds parameters are fine - Oh, and the owner of the pond wears a green sweatshirt on Sundays.

    You know - something we ALL identify with!

    Or, why not contact Micheo himself and explain his ideas are flawed because you specify a minimum 10% of water within a filter and his silly filter has much less than 1% - go on. Tell him - you know it ALL!

    Must dash - Xmas book sales and how to get ERIC TWIN FOUR units down a chimney stack on Christmas night.

    Waddy.

  7. #357
    Sansai sundan's Avatar
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    proof is in the pudding. Show us a video of the brushes being clean! Give what the people what, period. It reminds me of a koi joke...

    There was a koi-keeper named Floyd who didn't get much respect from the other members of his local koi club. Most of his koi were of mediocre quality and he had some longfins as well. He loved his fish all the same, but he still hungered for the approval of the koi club.

    One day Floyd was watching a show on the Discovery Channel about how dolphin trainers teach dolphins to do tricks. It showed a bottlenose dolphin leaping from the water through a hoop, doing a spectacular flip, and diving back into the water through the middle of the same hoop. Floyd had a flash of inspiration. He would train his koi to do tricks! The koi club would be dazzled.

    Floyd spent weeks working with his fish. He followed all of the same steps the trainers used on the show, but nothing was happening. He became so obsessed with training his fish, he started to slack off on backwashing his sandfilter, doing water changes and his water clarity became terrible.

    Finally, the day of the meeting arrived and the members gathered around Floyd's pond. Floyd was so ashamed he refused to come out of the house. His wife did not like seeing him upset and became angry with the koi club for treating her husband so poorly. She marched out to the pond to shame them. She played Floyd's dolphin video and explained how he had spent countless hours training his koi.

    Just as some of the members began to laugh and got up to leave, Floyd's most beloved koi suddenly leapt from the murky water right through the center of a feeding ring, did a 360 flip and a barrel roll and then dove back down into the same ring! Everyone was speechless with amazement. One by one, the club members began to applaud, proclaimed Floyd a true genius and nominated him "Koi-person of the Year". They wrote him a heartfelt letter of apology, gave it to his wife, and left.

    Floyd's wife rushed inside with the letter in hand and breathlessly told Floyd what had happened. But Floyd just silently shook his head.

    "Honey, why aren't you more excited?" his wife asked in confusion. "You've worked so hard for this!"

    "Sweetheart," he responded," it was just a lucky fluke."

  8. #358
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Uncle Peter, for this Christmas I would like you to fill your sled and bring me the three fish you sold me and then sold to the other gentlemen in the UK ( I'll let you off the hook-- just replace them , as I'm sure the new owner has become accustom to their faces). I'd like you to deliver Tom B's jumbo chagoi that 'disappeared' in the UK and also his replacement kohaku for the 'guaranteed' female koi that 'turned into' a male koi ( possibly due to water currents?). I'd like you to bring in your sled the replacement fish for all the others especially Dan and Gene. Please admit to 'you know who' that his Toshio sakai fish is actually from IGGY ( a few of us knew that from day one, you clever boy). And please square things with my buddy winky and Steve C. Please apologize for the auctioning off of the Down's super show fish at another dealers ( who you briefly signed on with as promoter) and finally, please square things with the almighty. I don't want to here again how it was all your son's fault. Just come clean, it's good for the soul.
    If you do all these things, we can then discuss your re-entry into the world's koi community with open arms. And maybe the merits of your new/old box filter should we find any. Since you are rolling in the dough again since the launching of Koi KIchi 3 and the Mr ERIC's filters are flying off the shelfs and into the ponds of the rich and famous, retribution should be of no consequence. ( " Den! Quick! Take a picture!! Bill will be wanting THIS one!! Unless of course any of you around the bowl speak up first!" LOLs " aaahhh, the FUKURIN!!! BEAUTIFUUULLLL!!! As he rolls the water over the fish's back in the bowl. Grifter talent at it's best)
    Until then, please spare us 'Waddy's next plan for world domination'. Your former friend, JR
    Let me first say that I have intentionally stayed off this thread since both JR and Peter are not only two of my mentors, but both are close personal friends. Yes, I have opinions regarding filtration and "system" design" but I would much rather discuss the variances of opinions between the two over a "pint" like the old days. Alas, that may never be.

    The only reason I am posting now is that my name was brought up back on page 32, post 315 to which I have quoted and bolded the portion where I was referenced and the ONLY portion that pertains to me.

    Let me clarify something. My "minimal" loss due to the collapse of Infiltration had nothing to do with Peter. He neither knew of such nor in my opinion in anyway accountible. In addition, I believe that this loss was due to a business collapse beyond the control of any party at the time. I would have given everything in my power to have helped prevent such. Not only are JR and Peter both held in my highest regard, Tim was, and still is one of, if not the, closest friend I have. Check that.....Tim is an adopted member of our family. He is like a bother to my children and Cheryl like his adopted mother, even to this day.

    I am "gutted" at the events surounding the collapse of Infiltration, the wrecked friendships that resulted and the disassociations that have resulted. There are times in the business world that events occur that can lead to a snowball like event. Unfortunately Infiltration and thus some of their customers (in my opinion) got caught up in one of these events.

    Sad

    No comments regarding this post, please. In respect to all parties, I will not respond publicly.

    Steve Childers
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  9. #359
    Jumbo
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    I have been quietly following this thread with interest hoping I might gain some new knowledge some where. But i have seen nothing come about to PROVE to me that ERIC is anything new or worth implementing.

    Over the years I have tried probably every kind of filtration possible. My very filter 24 years ago was an up flow under gravel lava rock filter, about 6 by 8 feet, 4 feet deep, and I have been experiminiting ever since.

    I have prooved to myself, with out any doubt, no way is any kind of static media like matts, placed in some kind of trough or chamber going to out perform a good aerated moving bed filter. And I have prooved to myself, with out a doubt, a moving bed filter will never preform as good as a shower. Period.

    Case in point. For the last 4 years my personal pond had four 100 gallon moving bed filters, powered by two AV 150 air pumps, with 6 cubic feet of K-1 media in each MB. AND also one 4 tray shower with 16 cubic feet of feather rock flowing 8,000 GPH. After 4 years of using this combo the K-1 media was still white as new, which tells me all the bacteria has colonized the shower, and not the M/B.

    So to proove this, I built a new indoor tank,
    New Test Tank
    what I call my "Test Tank". I am using this Test Tank to proove to my self several different things but for the sake of this thread I'll speak of just one.

    Showers. This tank has two 4" Bottom Drains which each feed an Evolution ES 8500 pump which each feed a 3 tray shower. (6 trays total) At 3 feet of head these pumps are putting about 9000 gph through each bank. Each tray has 5 cubic feet of feather rock in it. There is no settlement or prefilter, just raw BD water going to the showers. There are also two 100 gallon S/G filters fed with skimmer water (4500 gph) just for clairity.


    When starting this Test Tank I cycled it with bottled house hold ammonia at the rate of 3ppm. I had nitrites show in 4 days, and nitrates show in 6 days.
    At this point I stopped using bottled ammonia, waited a day, and added the fish, 3 a day until all were added, (21 total averaging 24 inches) At no time durning this did the showers fail to keep up with the additional fish load.

    Currently my 21 fish are doing well, eating me out of house and home, water is kept at 72 degrees. They are fed equal parts Saki Growth, EA Health, and Kodama Color Up. They are fed small amounts several times a day, some times 20 or 30 small feedings a day.

    My water tests at no time after cycling have shown any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, 0, period! I do water changes via a constant flow through, typicaly 10 gph, 240 gpd.

    I challenge anyone to proove to me where any kind of submerged filter is going to out perform showers. I also invite any dis believers to come here for a visit, personaly look at my system, bring your own test kits, visit and BS a while. The coffee's always on.

  10. #360
    Tategoi
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    Steve,

    It is always good to see your input, as you are one of those rare individuals who actually builds these systems in order to test them out, and then freely shares your results. Your on-going contributions to filter development are invaluable, and your generousity to newbies (such as myself) is greatly appreciated.

    I would only add to your comments -- if you would allow me -- that I think it is important to define our parameters when we discuss one filtration strategy out-perfoming another. Using the BakKi shower as an example: While the nitrogen waste-tracking peformance of the Bakki can be very impressive, a Bakki might not be as appropriate a choice for an arid environment where there was a lot of evaporation and water was pricey, or where the noise and/or electrical demands were issues. I guess I tend to shy away from a "this one is best" philosophy, as I feel that the "best" strategy may depend upon a particular installation.

    Just my 2 cents -- make that three cents (inflation!).

    Most respectfully,

    Paul

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