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Thread: Peter Waddington's ERIC - Endless River In Concrete

  1. #31
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    Sorry I typed a reply but it kicked me off!
    Will try again.

  2. #32
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    To Mike

    My big problem is tracking.

    I'll mention a vortex which pains me to say, but when I came up with it 25 years back I thought it was the eigth wonder of the world.

    This applies to any and every upward-flow box - pump fed or gravity fed - centre exit, side exit or side triough exit.

    Check this - do not take my word for this.

    Get flexi plastic tube or rod and form the shape of the top ot the box. Get cotton or gauze and stretch it like a drum skin. Place it below water and below the exit - pipe or overflow.

    Add refresh or muddy water - will not harm Koi.

    continued

  3. #33
    Nisai
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    The ERIC system itself despite not seeing one in operation I am sure will work very well assuming maintained as per instructions. Further information on it seems fair, and logical. Also seems beutifully built.

    What I dispute is the criticism of other filters which I feel uses either very swayed information or lacks first hand knowledge.

    Not to mention it all at once but if we start with mechanical filtration. I absolutely 110% agree with you on your lavotory theory. But can you please explain how a brush filter is superior to a sieve. They both remove similar amounts of waste (to the same micron) but the sieve effectively flushes it instantly by removing it from the water stream INSTANTLY. Using your own theory the sieve is superior.

    And the idea that it is better than a drum filter???

    With the greatest of respect

    Ben

    EDIT PS: My own view of where these fit into the scheme of things would be on midwater/ skimmers to privde clarity. With the bulk of waste (BD's) based n your lavotory theory being removed instantly by the sieves/drum. Such a pond would have sieve and showers on BD's, ERIC's on midwater and more to showers of skimmers.
    Last edited by Ben W; 11-30-2009 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Addition

  4. #34
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    So many questions and unsure of where to start (still one Lost Lam), so bear with me as I randomly ask away.

    1. Waddy, could you please share with us (or provide a link) the media that you are using for the ERIC system. How is it different/similar to the conventional Jmats that we are all aware of? Is there any gap between the mats in your system, and if so, then what is the significance of the gap?

    2. In a standard ERIC FOUR (meaning four mat cartridges spaced evenly apart in a filtration chamber) what is the recommended and maximum flow rate? Is it possible to have more than four mat catridges in a chamber? Furthermore, is there one pump per ERIC FOUR, meaning if I have a pond that is 20,000 gallons and I want to circulate pond once an hour then I will need 10 ERIC FOUR systems in that pond since, if I remember correctly, each ERIC FOUR can flow an average of approx 1,800 gph. This means ten pond outlets (be it via BDs or midlevel uptake or skimmer circuit or etc....). This also means 10 different pumps. How is this feasible?

    3. 85% media exposure to ammonia-rich pond water? The only thing I see different between ERIC and other multichamber mat filters is aeration between mats. Regardless, even if the water is boiling from aeration, water will still always take the path of least resistance. That is, they still follow a single easiest path to whether the pump is pumping water from. This means that ERIC is no different than other multichambered horizontal systems.

    4. Aeration. This one still befuddles me. Shower type filtration. Trickle towers. Fluidized bed w/ K1 & biochips. Upflow type filtration w/ massive aeration. Would definitely like to know what DO is on ERIC.

    5. Maintenance. Brushes full of fish waste will require manual force to remove, not a simple 10sec drainage w/ drain pipe. Versus maintenance-free showers and fluidized bed and the easy maintenance of a sieve-type or mechanical vortex.

    Just a few questions to get started.

  5. #35
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    To Mike contd.

    When the water is muddy place the skin under water and under the exit then leave system running for an hour or so. Then remove skin which will be brown with a dark brown stain near exit outlet.
    This denotes the water flow coming DIRECTLY from inlet pipe and is less than 20% of the surface. This means the box could be 80% smaller and only 20% of surfaces are being served with incomiong water.
    cont.

  6. #36
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    Mike 3

    Whether the box is heavily aerated or not it makes no difference at all to the tracking - add multiple chambers and this only compounds the stagnant water problem which could be dangerous.

    The only time any and every upward-flow box works to perfection in allowing ALL incoming water to serve ALL surfaces within the box is on the first fill and the first fill alone as water rises perfectly at equal level.

    Once the 2" pump pick-up starts or the overflow exit operates then tracking begins.

    Agin please do not just take my word - anyone can easily put it to the test.

    I hope i have explained a little - if not - hit me again.

    Waddy.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen View Post
    So many questions and unsure of where to start (still one Lost Lam), so bear with me as I randomly ask away.

    1. Waddy, could you please share with us (or provide a link) the media that you are using for the ERIC system. How is it different/similar to the conventional Jmats that we are all aware of? Is there any gap between the mats in your system, and if so, then what is the significance of the gap?

    2. In a standard ERIC FOUR (meaning four mat cartridges spaced evenly apart in a filtration chamber) what is the recommended and maximum flow rate? Is it possible to have more than four mat catridges in a chamber? Furthermore, is there one pump per ERIC FOUR, meaning if I have a pond that is 20,000 gallons and I want to circulate pond once an hour then I will need 10 ERIC FOUR systems in that pond since, if I remember correctly, each ERIC FOUR can flow an average of approx 1,800 gph. This means ten pond outlets (be it via BDs or midlevel uptake or skimmer circuit or etc....). This also means 10 different pumps. How is this feasible?

    3. 85% media exposure to ammonia-rich pond water? The only thing I see different between ERIC and other multichamber mat filters is aeration between mats. Regardless, even if the water is boiling from aeration, water will still always take the path of least resistance. That is, they still follow a single easiest path to whether the pump is pumping water from. This means that ERIC is no different than other multichambered horizontal systems.

    4. Aeration. This one still befuddles me. Shower type filtration. Trickle towers. Fluidized bed w/ K1 & biochips. Upflow type filtration w/ massive aeration. Would definitely like to know what DO is on ERIC.

    5. Maintenance. Brushes full of fish waste will require manual force to remove, not a simple 10sec drainage w/ drain pipe. Versus maintenance-free showers and fluidized bed and the easy maintenance of a sieve-type or mechanical vortex.

    Just a few questions to get started.
    Hi Lam,

    1. It's explained clearly on the website - there is a 19mm gap under and between all 14 flat sheets for water to pass freely. The significance of the gap is simply to allow water to pass freely and thus service all surfaces - cannot understand why you ask this? There are graphics illustrating this on the 'What's Inside' page. It is what we term as 'best quality' standard Japanese Filter Mat - made by the same company Enkev only 30% denser in weave and only 19mm thick instead of 38mm thick it is made for me in grey colour. FYI - Japanese Filter Mat has not been made in Japan for the past 15 years, it's made in China and imported back into Japan.

    2. If you have a 20,000 gallon pond and the base shape and dimensions allows four drains to be sited perfectly to produce a good vacuum effect on the base then four ERIC FOUR units will do this superbly. The flow rate through each would be 2,000gph - total turnover 8,000gph but it is impossible to generalise in this way.
    (If the pond base is 6 feet wide and 40 feet long you would need 7 drains and seven filters to get a reasonable effect. Take it to silly lengths of 4 feet wide and 50 feet long??????? It is not possible for anyone to state 'My Box will filterXXXX gallons!)

    contd. In case it kicks me off again

  8. #38
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Thanks for the explanation Waddy. Sorry but I haven't had a chance to read all of the contents on your website.

  9. #39
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    2nd reply to Lam

    Quote Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen View Post
    So many questions and unsure of where to start (still one Lost Lam), so bear with me as I randomly ask away.

    1. Waddy, could you please share with us (or provide a link) the media that you are using for the ERIC system. How is it different/similar to the conventional Jmats that we are all aware of? Is there any gap between the mats in your system, and if so, then what is the significance of the gap?

    2. In a standard ERIC FOUR (meaning four mat cartridges spaced evenly apart in a filtration chamber) what is the recommended and maximum flow rate? Is it possible to have more than four mat catridges in a chamber? Furthermore, is there one pump per ERIC FOUR, meaning if I have a pond that is 20,000 gallons and I want to circulate pond once an hour then I will need 10 ERIC FOUR systems in that pond since, if I remember correctly, each ERIC FOUR can flow an average of approx 1,800 gph. This means ten pond outlets (be it via BDs or midlevel uptake or skimmer circuit or etc....). This also means 10 different pumps. How is this feasible?

    3. 85% media exposure to ammonia-rich pond water? The only thing I see different between ERIC and other multichamber mat filters is aeration between mats. Regardless, even if the water is boiling from aeration, water will still always take the path of least resistance. That is, they still follow a single easiest path to whether the pump is pumping water from. This means that ERIC is no different than other multichambered horizontal systems.

    4. Aeration. This one still befuddles me. Shower type filtration. Trickle towers. Fluidized bed w/ K1 & biochips. Upflow type filtration w/ massive aeration. Would definitely like to know what DO is on ERIC.

    5. Maintenance. Brushes full of fish waste will require manual force to remove, not a simple 10sec drainage w/ drain pipe. Versus maintenance-free showers and fluidized bed and the easy maintenance of a sieve-type or mechanical vortex.

    Just a few questions to get started.
    Lam,

    3. ERIC is as much to do with multi-chamber filters as a car is to a microwave - nothing at all! Please read the website for all information at length. Yes the water does follow the easiest path in ERIC units because it is pure horizontal flow - it can do nothing else but follow that path in a shallow, narrow and long box. It does not travel up and down because that results in tracking - it is confined and harnessed in a tight space and ALL incoming water passes through AND OUT. None stays in the box at all. Furthermore - IF ever needed (I say IF) - the entire box contents can be removed whilst all water is drained AND re-filled, the internals can all be replaced (left to right, right to left, upside down etc.) within 4 minutes after first proving to one's eye the box itself is brand new again. Add to this the pond has hardly dropped an inch. Please try to do that with a multi-chamber unit!

    4. Aeration - the aeration used in ERIC units is no different than the aeration used in fluid fish farming applications - in ERIC it is there to produce as much turbulence as possible in the TINY CAPTIVE spaces before each bio block - in the same way the aeration in the fluid systems is there to keep the semi-buoyant beads moving around. In both cases excess D.O. is produced which is no bad thing - as long as it is sent back to the pond and not retained in the box doing zero.

    contd.

  10. #40
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    5. Maintenance. Lam this is going to be very difficult if you really believe there's such a thing as any filter in the world that requires nil maintenance.

    I have explained why not the vortex in an earlier reply.

    Showers have NO mechanical removal properties at all and nor have fluidised systems - repeat NONE whatsoever.

    If you really do believe that the above can remove this constant deposit of visible solids as if by magic then I'll leave this subject for others to form their own opinions.

    I am of the opinion that ALL mechanical stages are merely lavatories and all lavatories require flushing. Even belt and drum filters require manual attention.

    With ERIC units you do not need a seive - come to think of it - why would you need a seive if your showers and fluidised units take care of all that??? Surely these magical boxes can get by without a sieve? Then, come to think of it, why was the sieve invented and for what? Just a thought.

    I am suggesting a brush box which is far more than just brushes believe it or not and I suggest a 10 second per day pull of a standpipe to remove the majority of solid debris. Is there any other unit in the world you know of requiring less maintenance?

    Please keep firing the questions.

    Waddy.

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