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Thread: Peter Waddington's ERIC - Endless River In Concrete

  1. #41
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post

    I am suggesting a brush box which is far more than just brushes believe it or not and I suggest a 10 second per day pull of a standpipe to remove the majority of solid debris. Is there any other unit in the world you know of requiring less maintenance?

    Please keep firing the questions.

    Waddy.
    Please explain what you mean by 'a brush box is far more than just brushes'. ...The mechanical capture aspect of the ERIC is the function that causes me the most concern.

    Would the functionality of the ERIC be hampered by being preceded by a sieve?

    Are you suggesting that ERIC is so efficient that turning over the pond volume every 2 hours is as effective as turning over the volume in one hour or less with other systems?

  2. #42
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    OK, the bacteria we grow is aerobic, Oxygen loving, Right? I just don't see how static matts can out perform a good moving bed filter with oxygen constantly being added. Just as I don't see how a moving bed could ever out perform a good shower. But I will admit I have never used matts. Just M/Bs and Showers.
    A big factor to take into consideration is where you live and climate as to which filter system will be the most practical. Secondly the maintanence time as well as ease . Time can not be replaced, Thirdly is the value of the fish to warrent spending the money and ones financial position.
    So what is best for one person might not be so for another.
    In my situation if I had to build another pond it would be useing a good vortex in front of a Nexsus for each bottom drain as the main filtration.
    Brushes are a little dated as far as I am concerned no matter how you use them.
    Regards
    Eugene

  3. #43
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    [

    I'll mention a vortex which pains me to say, but when I came up with it 25 years back I thought it was the eigth wonder of the world.

    Vortex units were used in Egypt 4 thousand years ago and used ever since in thousands of applications
    Regards
    Eugene

  4. #44
    Nisai
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    Easier than a brush box........ermmm a sieve. These also take 10seconds a day, but dont need it. Secondly they effectively flush instantly a brush box does not.

    Best mechanical filter in the world: A SIEVE

    Best biological filter in the world: A BHM SHOWER. (plus aeration, degassing etc...)

    What is wrong with a shower being prefiltered by a sieve, a shower is no longer professed to do it all.

    Ok so your attack regards efficiency of a shower. Being as its not a submerged filter (ie filling is the only time where a submerged doesnt track). The equivalent to "stagnant" in a shower would be DRY no?? Well I can assure you this is not the case. Further flow is fairly even as long as media is placed correctly (one can SEE this)

    As I said everything has a place. Ive got pictures of an effective Japanese system (not sure allowed to post) utlizing endless japanese matting (horizontal flow), shower and pressurised filters all in a streamflow design. This was pictured in 2002!

    Ben

    Ben

  5. #45
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    In reply to the post by Ben

    [QUOTE=Ben W;147921]The ERIC system itself despite not seeing one in operation I am sure will work very well assuming maintained as per instructions. Further information on it seems fair, and logical. Also seems beutifully built.

    What I dispute is the criticism of other filters which I feel uses either very swayed information or lacks first hand knowledge.

    Not to mention it all at once but if we start with mechanical filtration. I absolutely 110% agree with you on your lavotory theory. But can you please explain how a brush filter is superior to a sieve. They both remove similar amounts of waste (to the same micron) but the sieve effectively flushes it instantly by removing it from the water stream INSTANTLY. Using your own theory the sieve is superior.

    sent Tuesday 9.50 am UK time

    Ben, with respect.

    I am not saying ERIC is BETTER than a drum filter but in one compact box, and if the lavatory is flushed daily as I suggest (this varies with each pond as you will appreciate and is dependent on waste amounts produced in any given pond) then the brush box works just as well in both collection AND removal of solids as does any mechanical stage. Even belt and drum filters require manual attention from time to time.

    Although cost really does not come into it for me because if something is incredible then get it - but - as far as I can see the mechanical stage of ERIC also costs less than any other similar type of stage available.

    Whilst the most efficient mechanical stage - by far - is good old diatomaceous earth it is simply far too good.

    Then one must ask as to why belts, drums and sieves are in use. As I see things they are to replace inadequate mechanical stages - add-ons AFTER the event.

    The brushes in the ERIC box are only a pert of the brush box.

    As to your views on various different means of processing on one volume of water I must confess I disagree strongly. The only situation I can see for taking mid-water feeds from a system is merely to feed heating systems, which has nothing at all to do with filtration.
    I would much rather work on the very simple and logical idea of getting all water to be processed from the only part of the pond where it is collected – namely the base. Take this ammonia-rich and debris-rich water into the box via the correctly-placed drain/s – process it, remove all unwanted items and get ALL the rest back to the pond as quickly as is effectively possible.
    Again with respect, I find your usage of various methods on one body of water not only complex and expensive but only add to confuse what is the required end result. I am not saying pure simplicity is the key to it all but it does play a very large role in getting there.
    Or am I just an old-fashioned guy!

    Peter.

    And the idea that it is better than a drum filter???

    With the greatest of respect

    Ben

    PS. Hoping this one gets through!



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    [

    I'll mention a vortex which pains me to say, but when I came up with it 25 years back I thought it was the eigth wonder of the world.

    Vortex units were used in Egypt 4 thousand years ago and used ever since in thousands of applications
    Regards
    Eugene
    Apologies Eugene, I bow to your knowledge of these things.
    I had no idea that Nishikigoi and Koi pond filters were around in those times. What brand of food was fed then? Do you have any photos of the Champs to hand?

    Waddy.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben W View Post
    Easier than a brush box........ermmm a sieve. These also take 10seconds a day, but dont need it. Secondly they effectively flush instantly a brush box does not.

    Best mechanical filter in the world: A SIEVE

    Best biological filter in the world: A BHM SHOWER. (plus aeration, degassing etc...)

    What is wrong with a shower being prefiltered by a sieve, a shower is no longer professed to do it all.

    Ok so your attack regards efficiency of a shower. Being as its not a submerged filter (ie filling is the only time where a submerged doesnt track). The equivalent to "stagnant" in a shower would be DRY no?? Well I can assure you this is not the case. Further flow is fairly even as long as media is placed correctly (one can SEE this)

    As I said everything has a place. Ive got pictures of an effective Japanese system (not sure allowed to post) utlizing endless japanese matting (horizontal flow), shower and pressurised filters all in a streamflow design. This was pictured in 2002!

    Ben

    Ben
    I am not 'attacking' anything - but in order to explain the processing ability of my system I have to give percentage performance estimations of all other flow patterns and so publish them. It is then up to the readers to read the information and then form their own opinions.

    It is known as freedom to access information.

    I also explain Maeda san's reasoning for the very high flow rate he specifies - please take time to read this.

    If you would let me see the 2002 picture you mention and it is a single unit fed by a single bottom drain, narrow, shallow and long that uses horizontal-flow water and horizontal-flow 19mm thick sheet cartridges with tight, captive spaces between each barrier then what you see is ERIC.

    If it is merely a box containing Japanese filter mat it is not ERIC.

    Then there's the fact that the basic forerunner of ERIC was first introduced by me in 1986.

    Then there is a thought that comes to me as to the question as to why I have never once seen any scrap of information given out by any other filter manufacturer as to HOW and WHY their systems operate.

    Waddy.

  8. #48
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    Akhenaten’s pond (unfortunately details of the filtration were in the lower right corner).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peter Waddington's ERIC - Endless River In Concrete-akhenaten-pond.jpg  

  9. #49
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Akhenaten’s pond (unfortunately details of the filtration were in the lower right corner).
    Nice tilapia pond.......

    "Vortex" principle in use in wastewater treatment as well as aquaculture for a very long time now, more'n twenty five years, but maybe so not long as 5000 years.

    Been awhile (20 or so years) but I designed and built a circular clarifier that was entirely automatic (self cleaning) and clarified about 3 million gallons an hour. It was 120 feet in diameter and six feet deep with a four inch drain in the middle that constantly took solids laden water from the system. Part of a system that included what is still the largest water well on planet earth. It only operated for about 12 weeks before it was imminent domained by the state in favor of watering golf courses and front lawns (as opposed to fish production).

    We did grow koi in it as well as blue catfish, and it was truly an "endless river" with the well at the top, concrete raceways, clarifier in the middle and more raceways at the bottom.

    No electricity, just waterfalls between raceways and an artesian well. The system produced about 1.3 million pounds of fish in its ninety day production run.


    Brett
    Brett

  10. #50
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Akhenaten’s pond (unfortunately details of the filtration were in the lower right corner).
    RobberF!
    That is priceless.
    If I rememeber rightly the caption was:
    Pyramid with an eye/walking Egyptian Koi hobbyist/ Tornado/ hippo butthole in tornado squirting pooh out of raceway and onto wheat field// river symbol/Snake on snake (bakki twist media) / 4 rows of Circular hairbrush with 8 in each row with two bare feet between each row/ Lotus leaf /fish fish fish (all stacked on top of each other)/ Blackwater koi food logo/ Big Honkin Ankh trophy being handed to koi hobbyists from a sitting Pharoah
    Last edited by luke frisbee; 12-01-2009 at 11:51 AM.

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