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Thread: Critique my local bred Shiro Utsuri

  1. #11
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    thanks for the side shots...it looks as if the SU has roots in the original blood. More of the modern ones do not have black starting close to the stomach and working thier way up to the top or the back of the koi. Many modern day lines tend to work from the lateral line up.

    I was not able to discern from the shots of the side what the vent and anal fins were like. from a shot where the koi is flipped over on it's dorsal
    exposing the under belly, tells me by the presence of sumi is that
    black is strong and will be coming along as the Koi develops. Clear fins gives me the other message. A mixed bag can be anyone's quess but if the koi could use some more black, some sumi in the fins underneath is better than none. the motoguro is uniform and strong, so that is a good sign.

    Over all, I think you need to take very good care of it as it appears to have good possibilities....
    Dick Benbow

  2. #12
    Daihonmei
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    You're right...they ain't backyard breeders per se, but they are in your backyard and not somebody-sans... but having bred "second place' in one of the more "unique" varieties 11 years ago tells us nothing of what they are doing with SU now.
    And the truth is....as Dick said...you got the "old blood"...and that could mean there is a greater chance of the fish staying stained.
    and then you say there is only yellow on the head...the recent photos shows a strong stain in the dorsal fin?!!!!!!

  3. #13
    Sansai WayneB's Avatar
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    Thank you dick and luke, will have to see what happens with time. This koi did not cost me a arm and a leg so i guess if it goes South then i havnt lost much...

    Luke, i see the yellow stain in the dorsal, it also has that in the tail fin...Lets see if it goes away.

    How old is this new modern "blood"? So the parents are from an older blood line in other words? I also have some other imported tosai shiros from Masaki but right now they look crap....

  4. #14
    Daihonmei
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    Now the air is cleared...i STILL like the tosai

  5. #15
    Sansai WayneB's Avatar
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    Hi Luke, I asked for the shiro to be crituqed and thats what i got....no complaints about it.

    Things that i did not notice before myself was revealved and that was the whole point of the excerise. So the fins of SU must be white and not a even slightly yellow. The colour of the head is a gamble.

    I did not like the comment about the breeder...but thats life. So i and everybody that followed the thread learned something in the end and thats what is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
    Over all, I think you need to take very good care of it as it appears to have good possibilities....
    Ill keep an eye on this little guy and post some more pics down the road - he was handed to me and the comment was "watch this space" The end goal of this tosai is to be a show quality SU, whether it will get there remains to be seen.

    Thanks for the input again.

    Wayne

  6. #16
    eds
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    Sansai
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    Can I do a bit of a hijack and post some photos of a little shiro I have in your thread? With the comments about yellow heads I'd like a bit of a critique of mine. Or should I start a new one? Seemed like a pointless replication to me, but don't want to be rude.

  7. #17
    Sansai WayneB's Avatar
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    eds, feel free. I wont have any issue.

  8. #18
    eds
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    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by WayneB View Post
    eds, feel free. I wont have any issue.
    Cheers Wayne. Thought it best to ask first!

    Here's mine when I bought it in June 2009. There are a couple of hi spots I'm sure you'll notice. The head is pretty yellow to me and the white is not as good as another with a lot less sumi I have from the same breeder. Will it all whiten do you think?







    Here's mine pictured in September. To my eyes the hi spots have nearly gone, just one by the caudal peduncle.


    What do you reckon? It's growing well. It was 19cm when bought in June and 31cm when measured in January. Will those hi spots disappear on their own or will more appear? Do you think it will whiten as it gets beyond 2 or 3 years old?

  9. #19
    Sansai WayneB's Avatar
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    tobi hi comes out in warmer weather and usually goes away in colder weather. Is there any other red markings on the koi like on the belly or on its chin?

    A Sinkokai judge (please ignore spelling) that i know said that he likes to see a single tobi hi marking on SU as it just showes how strong the black must be geneticly. He also mentioned that hi is prodominantly in the front half of a koi and that sumi is prodominant in the rear. So hi marking in the rear half of a SU means that the koi has geneticly strong hi to get the hi in the rear and that the hi on a koi like that will propably flair up with time. A single hi marking in the front of a koi he wont worry about as that indicates that the hi is weak compared to the sumi and it will propably dissapear with time.

    I had a SU which had one tobi hi marking on its shoulder when it was 2 years old but it dissapeared with time. Another (see pic below) had one single scale of red on its tailtube....but it also had lots of speckily red on its belly and chin and this one just got worse with time.

    Bad tobi hi

  10. #20
    eds
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    Sansai
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    Cheers Wayne. All I could see on mine were two on the right flank which have now disappeared (according to my eye-sight anyway, but I'm red-green colour blind) but the one on the top of the caudal peduncle is still there, so that fits perfectly with what you said! I couldn't see any other red under the body or the chin when I bought it.

    Looking at the pictures again the white has definitely got yellower since June. Hopefully it'll whiten again!

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