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Thread: Help!

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    Help!

    just bought 70 new tosai from Eldon KOi in CA they arrived in great shape and seemed to be doing fine. We lost two fish the first week. Last night we had 7 fish die. We have tested the water the best we can and see no elivated nitrates or Ammonia. We have witness no flashing or jumping.

    These fish are in a 500 gallon tank with a large bubble bead filter. they are supplied with heavy aireation and strong current.
    Any help would be appriecated or if there is someone in the Dallas area that could come by We are in Coppell.

    Michael Alford
    214-557-5922

  2. #2
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    Do you have a microscope? There are several things that can kill them that fast, but without a microscope, there is no way to know for sure. And the last thing you want to do with sick fish is subject them to chemicals if they are not necessary. You need to know what you are dealing with before starting treatment. See if there is a veterinarian in your area that knows fish. You need to get slime coat scrapings from a couple of live ones to be examined under a microscope for parasites. How do they look now. Are they swimming, are they sitting in the bottom with their fins clamped? Are they gasping in the currents? Do they look milky or whitish? Do they have red veins in their fins? How old is your test kit and is it a dip strip test or a test using drops? What is your pH, kH, nitrite and ammonia readings? What are the chlorine levels of your make-up water (if from the tap)? What is your water temperature and is it stable?

    Call someone from your local koi club. They might have a KHA who's willing to come buy to scrap and scope them.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Beyond Meg's advice (which is spot on) I have a few questions.

    What is your ph, kh, gh in this tank? What is your water change schedule? In such a small environment Ammonia and Nitrite can be reasonably well controlled with proper filtration but nitrate levels can rise very quickly and put a lot of stress on small tosai.

  4. #4
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    Larry, that was Cindy's advice .... but thanks for thinking of me when great advice is given

  5. #5
    Tosai
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    ph is about 7.8 and kh is low and gh is very high this is very typical for our water.

  6. #6
    Tosai
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    also did a 20% water change last night.

  7. #7
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    water change was a good thing to do, keep up on the water quality.
    scrap and scope?
    what did the dead koi look like?
    did you check thier gills? how did they look?

  8. #8
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    Did you do the water change before or after the fish died? What is the pH, ammonia, kH, nitrite, and chlorine levels of your added water? Your kH is low, which means that your pH is not stable. Any time you have an unstable pH, the pH is subject to crashing, which is a common cause of fish death. Please post your actual numbers....that would help a lot.

  9. #9
    Tosai
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    nitrate and nitrite both where just above 0ppm. have scraped 2 different fish and looked threw the scope and where not able to see any problems. the water was added last night before the 7 fish died there was one die before that which was the couse of the water change. the water was from the larger pond where the fish have been healthy for a year and had one added to it a few months ago so seemed likely to assume it had no health isssues with it. also used this water becouse it had no clorine and with that much added water didnt want to chance it with adding that much clorine.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    The fish you scraped....were they alive when you did it or were they the dead ones? Scraping a dead fish does not do much good. Parasites usually abandon the dead fish pretty quickly after death so I would not expect to see any parasites from a dead fish.

    The fact that 7 fish died within hours of changing the water sends up all kind of red flags for me. Without water test results (actual numbers) from both ponds, it's impossible to tell for sure, but I'll wager a guess. Big pond has more stability, just because of it's size. It also has less fish, adding to water chemistry stability. Little pond has too many fish and low kH. I suspect the water change threw the chemistry or temperature off enough to kill the fish. Can you test the water in both ponds with a test kit that uses drops and is not over a year old. The chemicals expire, leading to errors in the readings. So use a fresh kit. Post the following from both ponds:

    pH, kH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.

    Did you happen to look at the gills of any of the fish that died? It's important to know the condition of the gills.

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