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Thread: what in the world is wrong

  1. #1
    Fry
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    what in the world is wrong

    this morning i went out to check my pond temp and one of my Koi is sitting at the bottom of the pond on its side. all 11 other fish are fine. does this fish have a swim bladder problem? he seems to have a hard time swimming as well. i pulled him out and in a good sized bucket by its self. what do i need to do to find out whats wrong? hope my other fish dont get sick as well.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    Well, since JR is a goner I will have to fill in here. Sounds like constipation to me.

  3. #3
    Fry
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    thanks for the reply. and what should be done to fix this if that is the problem? scared the heck out of my this morning

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Hi, The very first think one whats to do when they see a suspecious situation in an otherwise healthy pond is to being checking the pond first for environmental issues.
    You might think that it is only 'one fish' and all the others are fine. And that might turn out to be right. But time is of the essence here and you need to understand the big picture.
    So do the basic tests on your water - ammomnia, pH, nitrite and nitrate. If this all checks out then move onto a skin scraping with the intent of eliminating parasites from your diagnosis.

    It will help to make a list of all the fish's behavior--

    - is it just sitting on the bottom?
    - does it struggle to get to the surface and swim ackwardly?
    - does the fish flash it's body against the bottom or other objects?
    - is the fish breathing rapidly?
    - is the fish's skin clear or cloudy?
    - the fin's ragged and torn?
    - is the white skin bllod shot?
    - any ulcers ( look even on the belly)?
    - is the belly swollen or are their any signs of bloating?

    Over the next few days, watch ALL the other fish for similar behavior before ultimately deciding if this is a 'personal problem or a community problem.
    Don't immediately isolate this fish from the others as if it parasites or an environmental problem, all the fish are exposed and moving a weak fish this time of year is dangerous ( UNLESS you have a proper quarantine system and then moving the fish is a good idea). You should know that most beginners move fish to inadequate conditions and tend to kill the fish with things like no active filter presence, chlorine problems, too small an enclosure resulting in bas water conditions. In otherwords the fish 'might' be better off in the bigger pond in many cases than in a 'hospital tank' that isn't a great environment.

    I wanted to give you this broad approach rather than zero in on the fish itself as you are now experiencing a learning curve and it's important you develop the right approach to the diagnosis process.

    So if you give us some history the group can help you out. I'll start;

    Is this a fish that has been out all winter?
    Has this particular fish been in your pond a while and always been normal?
    Or is this a 'new fish' just added directly to the pond?

    JR

  5. #5
    Fry
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    JR, thanks for the reply, the first 2 symptoms are a yes. the others not at all. except the fish does seem a bit fatter now.

  6. #6
    Fry
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    all my fish were added to this pond about a year now. they have all been out all winter long.

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    Ok, and how cold was your water this year and for how long? JR

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    Signing off now, so I'll make a few assumptions since you haven't seen my post at this moment:

    'If' you are in a cooler area and 'if' you have had a long hard winter or a very wet winter then the benefits of cooler water season turn very quickly to a survival event and a very stressful experience for a domestic carp.

    The most common early spring evidence of this are as follows;

    1) parasites, opportunistic alages and fungi. Because the slime koi is not shed as in other seasons and due to an exhausted immune system, it is very common to see infestations this time of year- especially costia and chilodonella in late winter. There are also fungi and algaes that will grow on koi this time of year. The Japanese will refer to the congestion ( white film) on color plates of the head and shoulders as ' a cold'. That can be just congestion in deanimated slime layer or it can be an infestation of protozoa. A salt bath, warm water and the associated activity of movement usually takes care of this. If it is costia then the fish also becomes depressed and sits at the bottom. First the weak ones and later more of the fish show signs of depression. This is unique behavior to mdeium levels of portozoa infestation. When you add flashing then you are likely looking at flukes and/or trichodina.
    The very best way to KNOW and therefore treat properly is with a scaping of the slime layer and then examination of the sample under the microscope.

    2) Gill issues-- like the slime coat congestion, the gills can also become coated and irritated. They can also become infected due to stress and the presence of bacteria. Again warmer water and movement along with some salt is a good remedy. If infected you can try some of the water antibiotics or better- injections. If the gills are badly infected then more aggressive approaches are available. Look to see the color and appearance of the gills- if the gills are infected even a beginner can tell ! The gill look sick- pail swollen and often ragged.

    3) internal infection- this one is common. We call it dropsy as if dropsy is a disease. really it is a catch all symptom like coughing in humans or sneezing. there can be many causes- usually it is consider very serious and with inexpenesive fish not worth treating. BUT if the symptom of dropsy is from one of the less serious causes, it can be reversed. I'd gove the general symptom a 25% chance of treatment as that reflects the underlying causes in terms of rarity.

    4) swim bladder infection- can be confused with tumors and localized dropsy. But more than often is better identified by swimming action than physical symptom. This is also a range of severity - from a death sentence to a passing condition. If the bladder is simply chilled and infected, often it passes untreated with the appearance of warmer weather. If it is a true infection, injections are needed and due to access to the infection, hit or miss in way of result. Finally there is the infected and now structurally damaged organ -- not treatable, unfortunately.

    These are the big four than match your description. See what you can do with this information. best of luck, JR

    PS and remember, as you treat this fish, you are learning about the next fish that might show this condition in the future. Every health issue with an individual koi is a valuable lesson that might save another of your koi or a friend's koi somewhere further down the line. Live and learn----

  9. #9
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIIMSpeed View Post
    thanks for the reply. and what should be done to fix this if that is the problem? scared the heck out of my this morning


    No more dry pelletes, use chopped vegetables and earthworms. Since it is just one fish this may be a good thing. Magnesium sulfate, epson salts just a dash 0.3%, I put that stuff on everything. Internal bacteria, kiss it good bye. I like to use a little koi clay too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails what in the world is wrong-clay-ff.jpg  

  10. #10
    Fry
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    thanks for all the information everyone.
    as for where i live. Dallas Texas. not really a cold reigon but we did get a few freezing days and snow fall once again on sat.

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