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Thread: Sakai Kohaku

  1. #1
    Nisai Leland's Avatar
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    Question Sakai Kohaku

    this is a female 19" (I think, I forgot to measure) Sakai Kohaku. There is a shimi on near the tail tube my dealer said he will remove it. I am more concerned about the beni on the tail tube. Will it improve with color food/ water quality? The dealer said that maybe if the white comes up more to cover up the red? Sorry for the bad photos - it was really really really windy today and I was afraid I was gonna drop the cam into the pond.

    There is also a Dainichi male that I am interested in but I can only buy one so I have to choose ($$$). They are both the same price, but the Dainichi is 2-3" smaller. oF course, the beni is darker on the male. side by side:Which one do you prefer (flaws and all)? I am new at this and one of these will be my first nissai (tosai experimenter). I am getting a pretty incredible deal on each of them.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Which Sakai? Sakai Isawa or Sakai Hiroshima?

  3. #3
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori View Post
    Which Sakai? Sakai Isawa or Sakai Hiroshima?
    The body and pattern indicated that they are not SFF.

    The patterns look like Isawa...

    --Dinh

  4. #4
    Nisai Leland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori View Post
    Which Sakai? Sakai Isawa or Sakai Hiroshima?
    I'm not sure, let me ask the dealer.
    probably, like dinh said, inc

  5. #5
    Nisai Leland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinh View Post
    The body and pattern indicated that they are not SFF.

    The patterns look like Isawa...

    --Dinh
    Hey Dinh or somebody, could you explain to me the differences between SFF (Hiroshima) and INC? Which one is more preferable, if that is possible to say?

    Thanks so much

    Leland

  6. #6
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    does the price of the female being the same as the price for the male say anything ?

  7. #7
    Nisai Leland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    does the price of the female being the same as the price for the male say anything ?

    The price is the same for me. Usually the female is 2x as much but i know the dealer

  8. #8
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinh View Post
    The body and pattern indicated that they are not SFF.

    The patterns look like Isawa...

    --Dinh
    Interesting....Not your usual INC Beni....

    Quote Originally Posted by Leland View Post
    I'm not sure, let me ask the dealer.
    probably, like dinh said, inc
    Dinh is usually right.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Pass on female. Male is better of the two. If you keep males, go for it. Otherwise, wait. There will always be another koi.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei
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    Leland, a couple of things you need to know about koi appreciation to be a good consumer---

    Although Sakai fish farm and Sakai are DIFFERENT people with the same name ( one is down in Hiroshima- Sakai fish farm or SFF for short and the other Sakai also known as Matsunosuke by many is in a small town known as Isawa and linked to his brother Sakai up in Yamakoshi and known as Yamamatsu) they use similar foundation blood lines and then 'do their thing' from there.
    Almost all of these breeders use some Dainichi for instance and therefore you will see IN SOME INDIVIDUALS the same phenotype look. having said that, isolated line breeding does produce some predictable characteristics. BUT to the frustration of the eager koi student, these breeders also work with different stains within their individual facilities! So Sakai Isawa for instance, has some lines with pink beni, some traditional matsunosuke stock and at least three other line bred strains.

    Moving on to the fish with a shimmie-- That is not a shimmie. That is color expressing itself and not removed without removing skin and scale or thru chemical means. But the point is, it is in this fish's genetic code and will/'might' try and express itself again at some time in it's life. It is not too hard to obliterate colors but it is important that you grasp and learn about gene expression.
    here's a sentence to think about;
    "Colors are a level of expression ofa gene rather than a dominance of a gene."

    So as a fish grows colors don't 'come up' as much as areas of the fish's skin begins to express genetic code. often it is a weak expression and partically visable.
    we see faded orange spots in Shiro utsuri which is the showa gene trying to express itself in an area of otherwise complete dominace.

    Hope this helps in your journey to grasp koi appreciation details and makes you a wise consumer. best, JR

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